Otago v Wellington
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<p>Otago have Matt Faddes as their star backline player. How can they be leading by this much...</p>
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This is fucked. The rules are beyond stupid. Every ruck it is a kick fest. Sooo bloody messy.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="608940" data-time="1472115199">
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<p>how does the contracting work at Super level, surely if it meets certain criteria, the franchises can just sign who they like, only when they dont meet criteria do they need to get dispensation from NZRU (ie non-eligible players) </p>
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<p>All salaries for Super Rugby players come from the coffers of the NZRFU (effectively yours and my money as we are members of rugby clubs in NZ) so they alone should be the ones approving whether contracts are appropriate and not be swayed by some whim of someone from super rugby organisations who effectively are not accountable financially if they sign a dud.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="608954" data-time="1472116555">
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<p>All salaries for Super Rugby players come from the coffers of the NZRFU (effectively yours and my money as we are members of rugby clubs in NZ) so they alone should be the ones approving whether contracts are appropriate and not be swayed by some whim of someone from super rugby organisations who effectively are not accountable financially if they sign a dud.</p>
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<p>Why would they? When have they ever? I would be enraged if the NZRU told individual organisations who they can and cannot sign. The Hurricanes have to live with it if the outcome is negative.</p> -
<p>No they don't as the money is not coming from their bank account. They contract a dud and the NZRFU still have to front up and pay the guy. The NZRFU must have the final say on whether any player a super rugby organisation proposes to sign is investigated thoroughly to see whether it is justified on current playing ability or not rather than simply rubber stamping it. I am not saying they come up with a list of players and tell their super rugby outfits that only those players on the list are able to be signed.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stockcar86" data-cid="608949" data-time="1472116026"><p>
Otago have Matt Faddes as their star backline player. How can they be leading by this much...</p></blockquote> Because we actually played as a team. It seemed like every Wellington player just wanted to end up on the highlight reel. Otago was also a lot more proficient with its interplay, Tom Franklin was absolutely immense. While halfWalden and Fletcher Smith dominated their inside opponents. For Wellington I thought their boy wonder Umaga Jensen was pretty slick, but they didn't put him in space enough. I'm really glad Mitchell Scott has put his problems behind him, he was an absolute terrier and fizzed in open space. Otago has been quite smart with the turn around games nearly completely swapping their team. I was also really impressed with Sio Tomkinson when he came on, the lad has massive wraps and it's good to see him stand up even if it was just on defence. Matt Proctor was also bloody good with ball in hand, although he was more hungus than Naholo at his worst. Needs to fix that if he wants to move past Super footy. Hopefully this will be Otago's year. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="608937" data-time="1472114888">
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<p>Sam Lousi put out of his misery thanks to getting subbed barely five minutes into the second half. Did anyone that signs off contracts at the NZFRU actually look at whether he can play or not before adding their signature to his TWO year contract?</p>
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<p>Looks to be an absolute waste of space. Surely there are better locks going around than him that could have been signed.</p> -
<p>Last night wasn't great viewing as a Wellington supporter, but it isn't a surprise when you consider how many Wellington players are straight out of school. Otago a lot more experienced.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="608927" data-time="1472114240">
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<p>That's what happened to FAMC.</p>
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<p>If you mean Michael Collins, yeah I too was wondering what happened to him. Talked up as the next big thing in the midfield a few years ago but looked like a fish out of water playing with the big kids. I wonder if fullback is his new position or was he playing there to make up the numbers?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NZ Rugby Quizzes" data-cid="609016" data-time="1472149422">
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<p>Last night wasn't great viewing as a Wellington supporter, but it isn't a surprise when you consider how many Wellington players are straight out of school. Otago a lot more experienced.</p>
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<p>Why pick them then. You do realise that some of them have been fully contracted Lions players for two years prior to this (Malo Tuitama and TJ Va'a) so they are not exactly what you could refer to as novices. Va'a is also a Super Rugby contract holder so someone somewhere must think he is capable of playing with aplomb at that level. Little wonder increasing numbers of good players that have been plying their trade at Swindale Shield/Jubilee Cup level are now appearing in other provinces Mitre 10 Cup Squads after being overlooked in favour of the latest "hot shots" coming out of school. As an aside, but sort of along the same lines, James So'oalio is reputedly turning out for Buller in the Heartland Championship this season.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="608954" data-time="1472116555">
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<p>All salaries for Super Rugby players come from the coffers of the NZRFU (effectively yours and my money as we are members of rugby clubs in NZ) so they alone should be the ones approving whether contracts are appropriate and not be swayed by some whim of someone from super rugby organisations who effectively are not accountable financially if they sign a dud.</p>
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<p>I realize that, but my point was, do the NZRU have to sign off on every person a franchise/MItre 10 cup team is looking at?</p>
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<p>Or do they have a checklist of criteria, first being NZ eligible for Super rugby and it is only if they don't meet these that the NZRU need to be involved?</p>
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<p>No point having a CEO of a franchise if he has to go running to the NZRU to sign off employing someone.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="609081" data-time="1472168067">
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<p>Why pick them then. You do realise that some of them have been fully contracted Lions players for two years prior to this (Malo Tuitama and TJ Va'a) so they are not exactly what you could refer to as novices. Va'a is also a Super Rugby contract holder so someone somewhere must think he is capable of playing with aplomb at that level. Little wonder increasing numbers of good players that have been plying their trade at Swindale Shield/Jubilee Cup level are now appearing in other provinces Mitre 10 Cup Squads after being overlooked in favour of the latest "hot shots" coming out of school. As an aside, but sort of along the same lines, James So'oalio is reputedly turning out for Buller in the Heartland Championship this season.</p>
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<p>Players like Johnny Bentley? Who stood out in Wellington club rugby wasn't selected in the squad? The point of ITM Cup Rugby is basically to produce Super Rugby players anyway. People also ragged on Wellington/Hurricanes for years for not retaining promising young players. How do we retain talent without signing them to contracts?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="609100" data-time="1472172642">
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<p>That was awful to watch, did anyone from the wrfu sweep their hotel for bugs?</p>
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<p>Too cold for bugs down here.</p>
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<p>Oh, you meant electronic ones.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="609094" data-time="1472171324">
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<p>Players like Johnny Bentley? Who stood out in Wellington club rugby wasn't selected in the squad? The point of ITM Cup Rugby is basically to produce Super Rugby players anyway. People also ragged on Wellington/Hurricanes for years for not retaining promising young players. How do we retain talent without signing them to contracts?</p>
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<p>That's the $64,000.00 question. There are only a certain number on contracts to go round and you can't retain everybody so some good players are going to miss out especially in areas like Wellington where numbers etc suggest there will be more chance of capable Mitre 10 cup level players being produced than in the smaller provincial areas. Every year there are boys who show good potential coming out of schools all over NZ but it is always difficult picking those that will eventually make it in a couple of years time and balancing that against the more mature players a couple of years out of school and now ready to play Mitre 10 Cup. A prime example being Sam McNichol who landed in Wellington straight out of NBHS armed with some sort of Wgtn RFU deal and then spent the next next few seaons almost permanently injured. He still cost them money and they got virtually no return on their investment. In the meantime Jason Woodward sort of had to go to the Melbourne Rebels as a result of thinigs like that.</p>
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<p>The Wellington RFU have recently signed up a couple of boys currently at St. Kentigerns College in Auckland because of promise, someting that might take a few years to bear fruit, Where do the boys aspiring to play in the same position go if their pathways are blocked by such contracts?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="609104" data-time="1472173867">
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<p>That's the $64,000.00 question. There are only a certain number on contracts to go round and you can't retain everybody so some good players are going to miss out especially in areas like Wellington where numbers etc suggest there will be more chance of capable Mitre 10 cup level players being produced than in the smaller provincial areas. Every year there are boys who show good potential coming out of schools all over NZ but it is always difficult picking those that will eventually make it in a couple of years time and balancing that against the more mature players a couple of years out of school and now ready to play Mitre 10 Cup. <strong>A prime example being Sam McNichol who landed in Wellington straight out of NBHS armed with some sort of Wgtn RFU deal and then spent the next next few seaons almost permanently injured. He still cost them money and they got virtually no return on their investment</strong>. In the meantime Jason Woodward sort of had to go to the Melbourne Rebels as a result of thinigs like that.</p>
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<p>The Wellington RFU have recently signed up a couple of boys currently at St. Kentigerns College in Auckland because of promise, someting that might take a few years to bear fruit, Where do the boys aspiring to play in the same position go if their pathways are blocked by such contracts?</p>
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<p>I think the Chiefs and Magpies are going to get that return on investment. :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="609081" data-time="1472168067">
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<p>Why pick them then. You do realise that some of them have been fully contracted Lions players for two years prior to this (Malo Tuitama and TJ Va'a) so they are not exactly what you could refer to as novices. Va'a is also a Super Rugby contract holder so someone somewhere must think he is capable of playing with aplomb at that level. Little wonder increasing numbers of good players that have been plying their trade at Swindale Shield/Jubilee Cup level are now appearing in other provinces Mitre 10 Cup Squads after being overlooked in favour of the latest "hot shots" coming out of school. As an aside, but sort of along the same lines, James So'oalio is reputedly turning out for Buller in the Heartland Championship this season.</p>
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<p>The word attitude comes up a lot according to my coworker who is associated with the same club as James So'oialo.</p>
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<p>Earl Va'a picking all the guys he coached at Scots just won't work and he will be gone at the end of this year. Alex Fidow can't scrum his way out of a paper bag FFS.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NZ Rugby Quizzes" data-cid="609172" data-time="1472198743">
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<p>The word attitude comes up a lot according to my coworker who is associated with the same club as James So'oialo.</p>
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<p>Earl Va'a picking all the guys he coached at Scots just won't work and he will be gone at the end of this year. <strong>Alex Fidow can't scrum his way out of a paper bag FFS.</strong></p>
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<p>At last someone backing me up on this major defect in a prop! Interestingly enough I was speaking to someone that has had, and continues to have, a bit of involvement in Fidows development and from memory he did say something about changing Fidows bodyshape to something more attributable to the hooking position. He certainly looks leaner than he did last season but no difference yet noticed in his scrumming ability. Surely Fidow's inability to make the starting lineup as a prop in his club team must ring alarm bells amongst the selectors of representative teams, so much so that it must say something about their suitability to retain those positions in future. It must be a real smack in the face to the propping staff at Oriental-Rongotai to be overlooked for higher positions in professional teams for someone way below them in ability to hold up a scum. One can guess their reaction should Earl Va'a come knocking on their doors if (when?) he finally decides to ditch Fidow.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="609212" data-time="1472201013">
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<p>At last someone backing me up on this major defect in a prop! Interestingly enough I was speaking to someone that has had, and continues to have, a bit of involvement in Fidows development and from memory he did say something about changing Fidows bodyshape to something more attributable to the hooking position. He certainly looks leaner than he did last season but no difference yet noticed in his scrumming ability. Surely Fidow's inability to make the starting lineup as a prop in his club team must ring alarm bells amongst the selectors of representative teams, so much so that it must say something about their suitability to retain those positions in future. It must be a real smack in the face to the propping staff at Oriental-Rongotai to be overlooked for higher positions in professional teams for someone way below them in ability to hold up a scum. One can guess their reaction should Earl Va'a come knocking on their doors if (when?) he finally decides to ditch Fidow.</p>
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<p>We have the same at Auckland with Isi Tu'ungafasi who doesn't even start for his club yet somehow manages to start in the Mitre 10 Cup all because he has come through the age group sides and the academy yet he can't scrum to save his life. Someone like Siua Halanukonuka who is a far better scrummager had to leave Auckland club rugby to get an opportunity because he didn't come through the grades and is flourishing as a result yet we're stuck with young guys (McHugh and Tu'ungafasi) who are well out of their depth all because they're the hotshots from out of school.</p>
