Crusaders 2024
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@nzzp said in Crusaders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
@nzzp said in Drua v Rebels:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
@nzzp said in Drua v Rebels:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
and you guys will bounce back well next season
why?
Dynasties end - and they are hard to come back from. Is the quality there? I'm not convinced what will be different next year
There’s plenty of quality in that Crusaders team, you’re only kidding yourself if you think there isn’t. So many All Blacks and All Black XV players. For one reason or another it just didn’t gel this season, it happens.
Next year they still won't have Whitelock, Mo'unga and Razor.
I'll rephrase: how are they different to the 98 Blues who came off similar decades of dominance?
You asked if the quality was there and I just answered saying there is. Nobody doubts that and that’s why it’s all been such a headline this season.
So the 98 Blues had quality as well.
It's lazy to just presume they'll bounce back. The question is 'why'. Is the coaching going to be better? Composure under pressure? What's going to be different?
Luck played a factor. Even if their luck on all fronts returns to the mean, the squad they had this year probably more likely wins 7-8 games.
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@frugby said in Crusaders 2024:
@nzzp said in Crusaders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
@nzzp said in Drua v Rebels:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
@nzzp said in Drua v Rebels:
@Landers92 said in Drua v Rebels:
and you guys will bounce back well next season
why?
Dynasties end - and they are hard to come back from. Is the quality there? I'm not convinced what will be different next year
There’s plenty of quality in that Crusaders team, you’re only kidding yourself if you think there isn’t. So many All Blacks and All Black XV players. For one reason or another it just didn’t gel this season, it happens.
Next year they still won't have Whitelock, Mo'unga and Razor.
I'll rephrase: how are they different to the 98 Blues who came off similar decades of dominance?
You asked if the quality was there and I just answered saying there is. Nobody doubts that and that’s why it’s all been such a headline this season.
So the 98 Blues had quality as well.
It's lazy to just presume they'll bounce back. The question is 'why'. Is the coaching going to be better? Composure under pressure? What's going to be different?
Luck played a factor. Even if their luck on all fronts returns to the mean, the squad they had this year probably more likely wins 7-8 games.
The squad will look a bit different in 2025.
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Chris have you heard any Rumours about Penny yet. I talked to my source last week. He said he’ll do well to keep his job. The fact him and mansbridge are mates might save him.
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@chchfanatic said in Crusaders 2024:
Chris have you heard any Rumours about Penny yet. I talked to my source last week. He said he’ll do well to keep his job. The fact him and mansbridge are mates might save him.
I hear there is a push to remove him,Mansbridge wants to keep him but there are a lot who don't so I hear.
Mansbridge can bugger off too. -
@Chris I was sitting next to mansbridge one night at the casino. He had no idea who I was and who I’m connected too. I probed him on a few things. He’d obviously had a few onboard so was quite forthcoming with his answers. He came across as quite arrogant.
I don’t think it’s a happy coaching box from what I’ve heard.
As bad a season as we’ve had , we still should’ve made at least the playoffs. I’m glad now that we didn’t as it will hopefully bring change. Will be interesting who is back in the squad next year. Maybe a couple of Japanese imports. -
@chchfanatic said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris I was sitting next to mansbridge one night at the casino. He had no idea who I was and who I’m connected too. I probed him on a few things. He’d obviously had a few onboard so was quite forthcoming with his answers. He came across as quite arrogant.
I don’t think it’s a happy coaching box from what I’ve heard.
As bad a season as we’ve had , we still should’ve made at least the playoffs. I’m glad now that we didn’t as it will hopefully bring change. Will be interesting who is back in the squad next year. Maybe a couple of Japanese imports.Does not surprise me what you say about Mansbridge.
Yeah I hear it is not a united coaching group on a few fronts the pre season ,Recruitment among some.
Me too I want a shake up and making the play offs would have papered over a few cracks that need fixing.Yep a couple of Japanese imports a possibility chasing a couple really hard.
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@chchfanatic said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris I was sitting next to mansbridge one night at the casino. He had no idea who I was and who I’m connected too.
Yeah, it's amazing how many people don't realise I am on the Fern when I pass them on the street or sit near them at a bar. I have lost count of the number of times I have actually had to point out who I am. The look on their faces is priceless and they always seem to slowly move away like they are intimidated or unworthy.
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@Duluth and abit of miscommunication, just about as dumb as many other critical moments the boys made in those little moments where it needed to count. Those little errors just pushed us out of top 8. Seems like the boys were all over the show this season, abit like management by the sounds of things
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I think that we were unlucky this year with both injuries and a few on field things too. But the 'lucky' version of this year's team probably only finishes 4th or so.
I think it's reasonable to expect the luck elements to even out a bit next year. Penney has been around long enough that I don't expect him to improve much for this year's experience, but maybe if there are backroom issues those can get smoothed out over the summer.
I think a realistic expectation next year is to be one of the lesser contenders - comfortably in the playoffs, maybe hosting a quarter final if we get some luck, but also not a strong favourite for the title.
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Finding a decent 10 and midfield would go a long way to sorting out some onfield problems. Easier said than done though.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Crusaders 2024:
Finding a decent 10 and midfield would go a long way to sorting out some onfield problems. Easier said than done though.
That will get sorted.
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@Cyclops Quite a bit for the lucky version of the team would have depended on how well Fergus Burke developed over the season.
To state the obvious, Mo'unga was a massive loss. To quantify it (and there's a slight discrepancy in the data I could find - I suspect around the B&I Lions game) - Razor lost 17 games as Crusaders' coach. 10 when Moúnga was starting and 7 when he wasn't.
Razor's win&draw record is something like 88% when Richie played and 68% when he didn't. I'm not surprised he wants him for the ABs.
So Penney had to cope with the loss of possibly the most influential player in Super rugby ever - and his replacement options kind of rapidly declined through Burke (who you might have hoped would be among the top 5 first fives in NZ) to Reihana (hope for top 10) to Kemara (top 15) to Hohepa (hopefully 16th).
In my mind this is the biggest issue to be resolved in the offseason.
Better luck with injuries and absences will make a significant difference - you'd hope to get a lot more use collectively out of Will Jordan, Scott Barrett, Tamaiti Williams, Ethan Blackadder, Codie Taylor, Christian Lio-Willie, Brayden Ennor and Zach Gallagher.
These guys will make a significant difference....
...firstly to lineout and lineout drive, which was the single-most worst thing this year. It was a shambles and it was pretty appalling how long it took the coaches to rectify this. In my mind, scoring from the lineout drive is like putting in golf - it's where you make your money. Getting Codie Taylor back to do the throwing certainly helped - and along with a taller loose trio, I think the additional height of Shalfoon was significant as well. With our strongest pack on the park this shouldn't be an issue!
For most of the season, the backline looked a mess. Somehow Sevu Reece managed to score a shitload of tries, but without Mo'unga, Jordan and Big Leicester, there weren't enough threats and what threats there were seemed to be poorly deployed. They didn't seem to have much of a plan for putting Aumua into space or against weak shoulders - or in the early games - even giving him the ball.
The backline alignment looked wrong to me - they seemed to be standing too deep (they looked like a league backline) - allowing defences just to drift and smother the outside backs. But, too many role-players and glue guys - and not enough genuine firepower. Hotham and Fihaki both improved significantly and FAB Johnny was surprisingly good.
The defence was sieve-like - we conceded nearly 100 points more than last year. And some of the core skills were lacking in too many players as we fumbled and bumbled and generally found strange ways to lose games!
