Crusaders 2024
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@antipodean Will they get any more out of him than they do with Hohepa currently?
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@antipodean said in Crusaders 2024:
Since he's going north at the end of this comp, I wouldn't give him any time at all.
Yeah I sort of agree with that,I would put more effort in to developing Reihana and see if Hohepa can step up any further as a 3rd option for 2025.
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@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
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@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
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@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
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@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown.
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@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown?
No idea about convincing Goodman.
Razor has a long relationship with Holland same with McDonald I guess he trusts them and see something others do not,Holland may turn out to be a great assistant coach but like many don't step up well to HC.
He did try to get Brown on board but as well all know he decided to stay loyal to Joseph and Japan . -
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown?
No idea about convincing Goodman.
Razor has a long relationship with Holland same with McDonald I guess he trusts them and see something others do not,Holland may turn out to be a great assistant coach but like many don't step up well to HC.Goodman is now coaching Ireland's attack and I fear we'll be worse for it.
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@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown?
No idea about convincing Goodman.
Razor has a long relationship with Holland same with McDonald I guess he trusts them and see something others do not,Holland may turn out to be a great assistant coach but like many don't step up well to HC.He did try to get Brown on board but as well all know he decided to stay loyal to Joseph and Japan .
@Chris That was 2019, what about last year when Brown was a free agent?
Razor had given his word to Holland etc when the change was going to be made in SA.
Razor would not go back on his word. -
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown?
No idea about convincing Goodman.
Razor has a long relationship with Holland same with McDonald I guess he trusts them and see something others do not,Holland may turn out to be a great assistant coach but like many don't step up well to HC.He did try to get Brown on board but as well all know he decided to stay loyal to Joseph and Japan .
@Chris That was 2019, what about last year when Brown was a free agent?
Razor had given his word to Holland etc when the change was going to be made in SA.
Razor would not go back on his word.final question for you mate, who do you think will replace Ellison as an All Black assistant coach when Taimati inevitably takes the Crusaders top job ahead of the 2026 season?
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@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
Yeah I could see that working Hopeha at First five is a handbrake as well,No threat to the defence at all.
@Chris said in Crusaders 2024:
@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris why did Goodman not stay given he would've got the HC job last year, was it about more about money or does he see himself as an assistant coach and wanted to further his development and try to become a world-class backs coach overseas?
More about development than money I would think he is not really money orientated.
Did Razor make any effort to convince him to join the All Black coaching ticket last year? I can't get my head around why Razor rates a guy like Jason Holland over other coaches like Goodman or Tony Brown?
No idea about convincing Goodman.
Razor has a long relationship with Holland same with McDonald I guess he trusts them and see something others do not,Holland may turn out to be a great assistant coach but like many don't step up well to HC.He did try to get Brown on board but as well all know he decided to stay loyal to Joseph and Japan .
@Chris That was 2019, what about last year when Brown was a free agent?
Razor had given his word to Holland etc when the change was going to be made in SA.
Razor would not go back on his word.final question for you mate, who do you think will replace Ellison as an All Black assistant coach when Taimati inevitably takes the Crusaders top job ahead of the 2026 season?
It will be a role running the defence.
I don’t really know to be honest.
That job is there to be earned by someone over the next 18 months. -
Just saw this.
13 weeks early.
Best wishes to Tamaiti, partner Alice and especially little (very little) baby Kaea.
'Our little princess': All Black's touching social media post after daughter born 13 weeks early
'We have a long road ahead,' the rugby star says in a heartfelt post.
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@Duluth said in Crusaders 2024:
@Chris said in Crusaders vs Hurricanes:
Difference of how they should play go wide at high tempo or a more restrained game reliant on set piece and drive up the middle before going wide.
Coaches on different wave lengths.
Some coaches saying they don't have the players for one sort of game other coaches saying the same about the other alternative.
Players a bit confused.Is this argument still happening? Based on Penney's comments just after halftime I guess he was in the high tempo camp?
It worked against the Chiefs but the squad really does seem better suited to playing a tighter game. There's no quality issues in the pack
I think they could adjust the back three for a more of a kick chase game too. McLeod for whatever reason struggle on defence in the midfield.. however he got into the AB squad basically as a tidy winger who chased kicks hard. McLeod & Reece on the wings with McNicholl at fullback
The coaching isn't up to scratch at all. The Crusaders didn't show enough urgency to get over the ball quick enough and the Force were flooding the breakdowns. The forwards coach is lacking - lineouts are ineffective, rolling mauls virtually non-existent and they're simply woeful at defending against them. This Crusaders team have lost the basics that were hallmarks of Razor's teams.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Crusaders 2024:
I find it interesting just how much difference a change in coach can make (looking at the Hurricanes and Blues here too). Are we seeing how influential Razor was?
I find it hard to believe a Razor coached team with this year's personal and a Penny coached team with last year's personal would have been this poor.
Hoping from an AB perspective it's the Razor factor.
I'm starting to think that Surfer Jesus is no longer a hyperbolic term to describe the Razor.
The team just got unashamedly thrashed by the 12th ranked team. The guy is genuinely a miracle worker having maintained such a cohesive and dominant team-unit performing much greater than the sum of their parts with extremely limited players such as Grace, Havili, McLeod, Ennor, Christie, McAlister, Strange, Gardiner, Drummond, Heinz, etc..
It confirms my long-held belief that these guys were all 'system players' under Razor and were never more than ordinary.
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@ruggabee said in Crusaders 2024:
@Crazy-Horse said in Crusaders 2024:
@sparky said in Crusaders 2024:
@Billy-Tell Nope but after years and years and years of cocky Crusaders fans. It's very interesting indeed to observe the current state of things.
Besides basking in the Crusaders looking quite poor, what do you find interesting? Hopefully it's more than just nah, nah nah.
I find it interesting just how much difference a change in coach can make (looking at the Hurricanes and Blues here too). Are we seeing how influential Razor was? Are we seeing a team that was more reliant on the missing key players than many realised? A combination of both?
I suspect it is both. I find it hard to believe a Razor coached team with this year's personal and a Penny coached team with last year's personal would have been this poor.
Hoping from an AB perspective it's the Razor factor.
I'm starting to think that Surfer Jesus is no longer a hyperbolic term to describe the Razor.
The team just got unashamedly thrashed by the 12th ranked team. The guy is genuinely a miracle worker having maintained such a cohesive and dominant team-unit performing much greater than the sum of their parts with extremely limited players such as Grace, Havili, McLeod, Ennor, Christie, McAlister, Strange, Gardiner, Drummond, Heinz, etc..
It confirms my long-held belief that these guys were all 'system players' under Razor and were never more than ordinary.
Yeah to borrow a basketball term, many of them were role players who seemed to know what to do and when to do it. It's a sign of a well coached team. We are seeing it now with the improvement at the Canes and the Blues and the continuation at Chiefs.
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The Crusaders remaining matches (home team first)
Crusaders v Rebels
Crusaders v Reds
Highlanders v Crusaders
Brumbies v Crusaders
Crusaders v Blues
Crusaders v PasifikaIn 2023 five wins go you close to the top 8 (8th, 9th & 10th had 5 wins). 8th place had 24 points
in 2022 four wins was the line (8th, 9th & 10th had 4 wins). 8th place had 23 pointsI think the line might be higher this year with a few more lower/mid table teams getting wins
Crusaders currently have 1 win and 7 points
So looking at what's left surely they are almost 100% likely to win that last match? Very likely to beat the Aussie sides in Christchurch?
So that would be 4 wins and at least 12 more pointsThen they likely just need one win vs Highlanders (away), Brumbies (away) or Blues (home)
So they should still make the finals of this dumb system easily. If they trip up against the Rebels or Reds it'll get interesting though
