Super Rugby - The Future
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I've made the point before, but rugby doesn't know if it is a club/provincial game, or an international game (ie Test/ODI cricket, or soccer?).
We're trying to be international (pays the bills) i get the feeling the North is the opposite.That conflict of identity is the cause of so many issues
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@mariner4life i would say most of the money in football/soccer is in the club game and the world cup propper...outside of actual competitions and qualifying for them they accept games as "friendlies"
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 do the rules or values have much to do with what needed to be done to make a successful business model?
Yep well rules /laws make for complexity, so you need more trainings etc to play , and each opposition requires differnet playing I think.
Values may of been wrong word, but meant by it for teams to have realsitic chance of playing as they should. -
Rugby elitism cracks me up
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
I've made the point before, but rugby doesn't know if it is a club/provincial game, or an international game (ie Test/ODI cricket, or soccer?).
We're trying to be international (pays the bills) i get the feeling the North is the opposite.That conflict of identity is the cause of so many issues
In the North, they're even more mixed up, with the VAST majority of the money coming into international teams, but they subsidize their privately owned clubs, which run at a loss. France aside, who make a pretty good club profit, I think
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
Rugby elitism cracks me up
That's maybe because it an elite game, well I certainly think it superior in abilty and qualities to other sports. Is why it's the sport I chosose to follow!:
meaning of elite:
a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society -
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
I've made the point before, but rugby doesn't know if it is a club/provincial game, or an international game (ie Test/ODI cricket, or soccer?).
We're trying to be international (pays the bills) i get the feeling the North is the opposite.That conflict of identity is the cause of so many issues
In the North, they're even more mixed up, with the VAST majority of the money coming into international teams, but they subsidize their privately owned clubs, which run at a loss. France aside, who make a pretty good club profit, I think
Same as down here mate, by far vast majority of our money comes from ABs, and then trickles down.
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I reckon NZR 'peaked' as such circa 2015, we had several legends of the game, high profile players, role models etc and they stayed in NZ.
Since then, the money pit that is European rugby has continued to pay players (probably close to what they might be worth) more than they can afford and keep pushing values up, meaning we are losing more and more players earlier in thier careers, eroding our once.enviable player depth.
This has started in the past few years (accelerated by covid imo) to stretch our resources at super level, affecting the quality of both players and games.
I wonder what the average age of teams have been over the years, again, I reckon the late 2000s through to 2015 the average age probably rose, but likely back on the way down.
Bit of a mish mash post, but think I made my points.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life interesting
I pulled up 2019 Super for comparison as it didn't have any Covid hangovers. Started 15 Feb through to 6 July. It's just too long.
How is it too long? In 2019 there were 16 super games, which is still shorter than every other comp.
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@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life interesting
I pulled up 2019 Super for comparison as it didn't have any Covid hangovers. Started 15 Feb through to 6 July. It's just too long.
How is it too long? In 2019 there were 16 super games, which is still shorter than every other comp.
In 1997 the comp finished in May, before the internationals. That's a good comp length
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life interesting
I pulled up 2019 Super for comparison as it didn't have any Covid hangovers. Started 15 Feb through to 6 July. It's just too long.
How is it too long? In 2019 there were 16 super games, which is still shorter than every other comp.
In 1997 the comp finished in May, before the internationals. That's a good comp length
But back then League and AFL didn't completely rule the market like they do now.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2024:
How's the reading comprehension? As I explained it, there would be two competitions for the same team (one club championship, one local).
That sounds like a fair balance to keep the test schedule as is, which we probably can't change.
You don't want me to read things properly do you gt?? Yep I can see that working, (lol have suggested it fot Aus in a forum there) ,perhaps I just like NPC for all it's problems. But a local super one with proviso it not played at main stadiums wouldn't be that bad,
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
every sporting competition has shit teams in it. What administrators aim for is that those teams have, in the eyes of their fans anyway, a chance to win on any given weekend, and that bad teams can develop in to good teams.
Rugby Union in the Pacific is basically Ice Hockey in North America. If we're to prevent it from dying here you only need to look at the NHL for a template.
Allowing free movements of players in the competition, regardless of nationality, moving away from national identity the Brumbies aren't an Australian team, they're a team from Canberra. Same thing with the Chiefs and Hamilton. The Australian talent pool will never be as good as the NZ talent pool for obvious reasons, how are Australian teams ever supposed to get on NZ's level?
Just look at the NHL example, it's the exact analogue, in the sense that you have two countries, one small that cares a lot about the sport (Canada/NZ) and a big country where the sport is very niche (US/Aus). In the NHL most teams are American and most players are Canadian. A Canadian team hasn't won in decades and yet Canadians are still crazy about it.
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That's actually really fucking on point
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@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
every sporting competition has shit teams in it. What administrators aim for is that those teams have, in the eyes of their fans anyway, a chance to win on any given weekend, and that bad teams can develop in to good teams.
Rugby Union in the Pacific is basically Ice Hockey in North America. If we are to prevent it from dying out you only need to look at the NHL for a template.
Allowing free movements of players in the competition, regardless of nationality, moving away from national identity the Brumbies aren't an Australian team, they're a team from Canberra. Same thing with the Chiefs and Hamilton. The Australian talent pool will never be as good as the NZ talent pool for obvious reasons, how are the Australian teams ever supposed to get on the NZ level? Just look at the NHL example, it's the exact analogue, in the sense that you have two countries, one small that cares a lot about the sport (Canada/NZ) and a big country where the sport is very niche (US/Aus). In the NHL most teams are American and most players are Canadian. A Canadian team hasn't won in decades and yet Canadians are still crazy about it.
The key difference here though is the club fanatical support. The US Fans support their team first and foremost and don't have too much care factor for the make up of the team. It's the same as the Premier League up here.
I just can't see Australians supporting Australian teams full of Kiwis. I think it would end up with mainly a NZ expat crowd. Perhaps it already is this way in some areas, but can you imagine any support at all from the Sydney money men of a Tahs team full of Kiwis?
Kearns/Waugh and co would never ever let that happens. They'd rather a shit box losing Tahs team full of Aussies over a succesful one full of expats.
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Weird isn't it?
NRL crowds couldn't give a fuck where their star player comes from, as long as they win
Big Bash teams are made up of people from everywhere
AFL don't give even a tiny shit where their players come from
Basketball? I would cheer a guy from and country on the planet if he brought the Taipans a championshipSo why do rugby fans care so much?
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Though, as a counter point, the Tahs have won precisely one comp in their existence
Where was their best forward from?
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
Weird isn't it?
NRL crowds couldn't give a fuck where their star player comes from, as long as they win
Big Bash teams are made up of people from everywhere
AFL don't give even a tiny shit where their players come from
Basketball? I would cheer a guy from and country on the planet if he brought the Taipans a championshipSo why do rugby fans care so much?
To be honest, I could be wrong.
I'm basing these thoughts on personal experiences in that I've spent the lions share of my career working with people from the elite schools in Sydney and they are pretty much so all like Kearns. My two visits to SFS to watch teams play the Tahs fully back up and reinforce this point of view.
Part of the reason I really like the Force is they seem to be the polar opposite of this.
