NZR review
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@gt12 most players nowadays are identified through school, then many signed to super franchises one way or another, plenty before they are ready.
Plenty of players get signed to Super dev sides that don't make the step up, similarly these talented school kids don't always make the step up.
NPC is an important peice of the puzzle, bridging that gap from schools to super, the dev sides in the middle don't give them all they need to develop thier game.
Sure the NPC isnt what it was and never will be, but doesnt take away from its role in developing and honing talent.
How often do Aussies lament thier lack of a comp like it, SA have the CC, if we didn't have it, the bleeding of the NZ game would increase IMO.
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I'm not against the NPC per se, I'm against NZR running 19 professional teams, with huge overlaps of duties across two professional competitions. I enjoyed the shit out of the competition last year, but it is a blip. No one watches it, hardly anyone goes to the games. It's not worth anything as a product.
I don't think it is sustainable.
I understand that some people love the competition, but I wonder why they wouldn't continue to love it if it were amateur players representing their clubs.
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
I understand that some people love the competition, but I wonder why they wouldn't continue to love it if it were amateur players representing their clubs.
Semantics, but when you say clubs I assume you are talking provinces, that most are largely amateur already (although some actual clubs are semi pro too) not to mention I get out most weekends and watch actual.club rugby too.
And who says people won't love it equally either way, I am not sure that is what this is really about, it is more if these provincial sides would/could remain in existence if there is no viable reason for them if not for the NPC in one form or another, the whole sustainability argument goes down another level.
Look I'm also pretty realistic and know something has to change, and when most of these conversations come up, my team is one of the first on the block, which is fair enough when you look at results in the last 20 years or so.
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Not sure if the inevitable shit fight that this thread will turn into will be worth it (I'll be spending more time on the Grumpy Old Man thread than the Happiness one after this I think), but here goes anyway.
Most Super players play NPC, it really doesn't matter in which order. It's a similar negative comment like the argument I see sometimes of ABs not playing Super. In any given weekend the majority of ABs are playing.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
I understand that some people love the competition, but I wonder why they wouldn't continue to love it if it were amateur players representing their clubs.
If it's amateur it's not going to be televised then where is the avenues for people to watch it?
On the point on nobody watching, I daresay the NPC would have the second most viewers of any sports comp on Sky, after Super.
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@Nepia said in NZR review:
Not sure if the inevitable shit fight that this thread will turn into will be worth it (I'll be spending more time on the Grumpy Old Man thread than the Happiness one after this I think), but here goes anyway.
Most Super players play NPC, it really doesn't matter in which order. It's a similar negative comment like the argument I see sometimes of ABs not playing Super. In any given weekend the majority of ABs are playing.
I don't consider changes to the NPC as being in isolation. SR needs to change as well, preferably to my admittedly genius model.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
I understand that some people love the competition, but I wonder why they wouldn't continue to love it if it were amateur players representing their clubs.
If it's amateur it's not going to be televised then where is the avenues for people to watch it?
At the ground..?
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@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
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@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
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I meant clubs - i.e., club players representing their clubs at the provincial level as part of an amateur competition.
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@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Who says that we should only have 5 professional teams?
I think we need to fold the Super sides back into NPC, or in reality upgrade some sides from NPC to Super. Either way, I would say that Hawkes Bay makes it.
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Problem is, super rugby is 30 years old now. It has it's own history. It's more popular than NPC. And there are more than one generation of fans tied to the franchises now, especially in the main centres.
Someone has to lose.
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
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@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
pay for it then.
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
pay for it then.
Well I do, I am a member etc of Taranaki. Go to games all the time. Because you don't bother going I not sure why you so anti and why it would lead you to make such bitchy little remarks. I pay memberships at a couple of clubs, and pay to go to anything from NPC to super to test rugby.
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@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
pay for it then.
Well I do, I am a member etc of Taranaki. Go to games all the time. Because you don't bother going I not sure why you so anti and why it would lead you to make such bitchy little remarks. I pay memberships at a couple of clubs, and pay to go to anything from NPC to super to test rugby.
Well done on missing the point: The NPC loses money. There aren't enough people like you,, so for those that say they like it, they're either deficient in numbers or aren't paying enough. So something has to be done.
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
pay for it then.
Well I do, I am a member etc of Taranaki. Go to games all the time. Because you don't bother going I not sure why you so anti and why it would lead you to make such bitchy little remarks. I pay memberships at a couple of clubs, and pay to go to anything from NPC to super to test rugby.
Well done on missing the point: The NPC loses money. There aren't enough people like you,, so for those that say they like it, they're either deficient in numbers or aren't paying enough. So something has to be done.
and one of the reasons is that NZR have starved teh NPC of importance and consequence. So it just doens't matter ...
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Nepia said in NZR review:
@antipodean Like for the admittedly genius model comment. Now I guess I'll have to go back and read it.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
At the ground..?
How does that replace the NPC for a viewer of rugby? If I'm home in winter I'll often go watch a club match or a Hastings Boys match, but that doesn't replace watching local players in the NPC.
Get rid of SR. Take the top 10 NPC teams, add the Australian 4/5 SR teams and Drua.
Everything else becomes the top tier amateur level below it.
Naa, just leave it as it is, works for me. I got Super at this time of year and NPC later. You don't like NPC fellas just go your own way, there plenty of us that enjoy it!
pay for it then.
Well I do, I am a member etc of Taranaki. Go to games all the time. Because you don't bother going I not sure why you so anti and why it would lead you to make such bitchy little remarks. I pay memberships at a couple of clubs, and pay to go to anything from NPC to super to test rugby.
Well done on missing the point: The NPC loses money. There aren't enough people like you,, so for those that say they like it, they're either deficient in numbers or aren't paying enough. So something has to be done.
I agree something has to be done, and isn't that what the cahirmen are trying to do. I ctually thought we see NPC trimmed by a couple of teams, but if we only play comps that make a prfit in rugby, there wouldn't be club rugby etc either. I not against it being streamlined but more the suggestion it doesn't have a place in NZ rugby, or isn't an incredibly important stepping stone for NZ rugby. Someone eralier suggested the pathways were school-academiy, super rugby-AB, I say NPC is a very very important step, as is club and junior rugby.
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Many teams are living within thier means now aren't they, some are not, and it's the lack of consequence for failing to do so, as in nothing.
Maybe NZR needed to start docking points of teams or something, but lack of consequence and being bailed out any time they asked nzr for a top up meant teams simply weren't really incentivsed to running efficiently, which along with NZR reducing the importance of NPC, meant it was like it.is designed to fail.
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The biggest problem NPC has got it's 1 div and heartland. way back when it 2nd and 3rd div, teams were amateur, but didn't need to bring in outsiders to be competitive. Then the game went pro, and we had super that changed the whole landscape. Tell you what , if the NPC was scrapped, the depth of our super teams would erode within 2-4 years, anyone without a super contract would be off to MLR, or NH clubs.
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As has been discussed before, we need to merge the two comps to get the best out of both structures.
Probably 10 teams, linked to projected population growth so it’s sustainable, with reason cost caps and a shorter season.
Less is more, it’s ok to have an off season. Let the players play at 100% more often and not pay for the current meat grinder schedule for the rest of their lives.
Keep the tribalism as best you can and have a comp that pays for itself
