Cricket - best ever, trivia etc
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Hsdlee's top ranking of 23rd was in 1987 after his highest test score in Sri Lanka in 1987.
Although his highest rating was in 1984 after his 99 v England in Christchurch, but their was better batting competition in 1984 than in 1987 and his slightly higher rating was 'only' good enough for a ranking of 24th.
Rating:
Ranking:
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Bowlers turn now……
Richard Hadlee - 1
Neil Wagner - 2 ( love Wags )
Trent Boult - 3
Kyle Jamieson - 3
Tim Southee - 3
Richard Collinge - 4
Ewen Chatfeild - 4 ( wow, that is fucken amazing in that era, shot Chats ! )
Shane Bond - 4 ( disappointing, I was sure he was 1 at one stage )
Daryl Tuffey - 6
Simon Doull - 6
Chris Cairns - 8
Lance Cairns - 8
Danny Morrison - 8
Daniel Vettori - 8
Chris Martin - 10
John Bracewell - 11
Dion Nash - 12
James Franklin - 12
Dayle Hadlee - 15
Martin Snedden - 25 -
All Rounders
These rankings are a bit of a fucken joke, Current rankings have Jadeja, Ashwin and Al Hasan taking up the top three spots which is fair enough but number four is a world class batsman who bowls a bit ( Joe Root ) and five is an all rounder who hasn’t had a bowl in his last five tests ( Ben Stokes )
….anyway…..
Richard Hadlee - 1 ( excellent considering the other three big names playing at the time )
Chris Cairns - 1 ( shot Cairnsy )
Daniel Vettori - 2 ( I could have sworn he was number 1 at least once…..)
Jacob Oram - 5
Lance Cairns - 5
John Bracewell - 6
Colin De Grandhomme - 6
Kyle Jamieson - 6 ( most overrated lower order batsman of all time )
Tim Southee - 7 ( in your face haters )
Doin Nash - 7Four of these “all rounders” don’t actually have test hundreds but obviously that doesn’t count for much.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
Yeah. Usually only half the test playing nations at any one time have a decent allrounder. Don't want to go too far down those rankings before they become meaningless.
We’ve had what I’d consider three great all rounders and they’re rightfully at the top. Genuinely impressed that Paddles got there considering the efforts of Beefy, Imran and Kapil. Best bowler but least accomplished batsman.
Cairns had less competition ( Shaun Pollock and Jacques Kallis obviously stand out ) but still a terrific effort.
When Vettori was carrying the entire weight of NZ cricket on his shoulders and his batting improved heaps I could have sworn he’d be number one too.
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Hadlee spent 1978 to 1983 hovering between 3rd and 4th best all-rounder. Then from 84 to 88 he was number 1. except for about 2 months, Then number 2 until retirement in 1990.
Hadlee probably spent longest at number 1 out of those 4 great all-rounders, according to the algorithm. Despite generally being ranked the 4th of those, by most.
Edit. Probably Nah. Actually Botham was ranked first from 78 to 83 uninterrupted.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
Hadlee spent 1978 to 1983 hovering between 3rd and 4th best all-rounder. Then from 84 to 88 he was number 1. except for about 2 months, Then number 2 until retirement in 1990.
Hadlee probably spent longest at number 1 out of those 4 great all-rounders, according to the algorithm. Despite generally being ranked the 4th of those, by most.
Beefy would have dominated in the late 70’s early 80s before both disciplines suffered. He was unbelievable in that era.
I would have thought Imrans superior batting would have edged it in the late 80s but then again he had a back injury and played only as a batsman for a bit if memory serves. As legendary as Hadlee was him doing that and not turning the arm over would be unthinkable…..
Sorry Indian fans, Kapil Dev was always 4th best overall to me.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
Yeah. Usually only half the test playing nations at any one time have a decent allrounder. Don't want to go too far down those rankings before they become meaningless.
We’ve had what I’d consider three great all rounders and they’re rightfully at the top. Genuinely impressed that Paddles got there considering the efforts of Beefy, Imran and Kapil. Best bowler but least accomplished batsman.
Cairns had less competition ( Shaun Pollock and Jacques Kallis obviously stand out ) but still a terrific effort.
When Vettori was carrying the entire weight of NZ cricket on his shoulders and his batting improved heaps I could have sworn he’d be number one too.
John Reid the elder speaks from the grave to say, "Fuck you".
He got to #2 - with only Sobers ahead of him. But Sir Gazza probably doesn't count either?
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v South Africa Tests:
Yeah. Usually only half the test playing nations at any one time have a decent allrounder. Don't want to go too far down those rankings before they become meaningless.
We’ve had what I’d consider three great all rounders and they’re rightfully at the top. Genuinely impressed that Paddles got there considering the efforts of Beefy, Imran and Kapil. Best bowler but least accomplished batsman.
Cairns had less competition ( Shaun Pollock and Jacques Kallis obviously stand out ) but still a terrific effort.
When Vettori was carrying the entire weight of NZ cricket on his shoulders and his batting improved heaps I could have sworn he’d be number one too.
John Reid the elder speaks from the grave to say, "Fuck you".
He got to #2 - with only Sobers ahead of him. But Sir Gazza probably doesn't count either?
Yeah he was a victim of my “old players’ bias to be fair.
No disrespect but golly, the gap between 1 and 2 is a chasm
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@Rapido said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Hadlee spent 1978 to 1983 hovering between 3rd and 4th best all-rounder. Then from 84 to 88 he was number 1. except for about 2 months, Then number 2 until retirement in 1990.
Hadlee probably spent longest at number 1 out of those 4 great all-rounders, according to the algorithm. Despite generally being ranked the 4th of those, by most.
Edit. Probably Nah. Actually Botham was ranked first from 78 to 83 uninterrupted.
Hadlee ranked himself as the best bowler and worst batsman of the 4, so it makes sense that he reached the top when he was batting as well or better than they were since he usually had the best bowling.
On the topic of Chatfield, Hadlee is effusive in his praise of Chats in Rhythm and Swing (and everywhere else when it comes up). He contributes a lot of his success to that partnership because people couldn't just wait Hadlee out - there was pressure and no runs at both ends, so his nice overpitched outswingers were much more enticing after 4 maiden overs than if they had already taken 30 off 4 overs at the other end.
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@Godder said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Rapido said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Hadlee spent 1978 to 1983 hovering between 3rd and 4th best all-rounder. Then from 84 to 88 he was number 1. except for about 2 months, Then number 2 until retirement in 1990.
Hadlee probably spent longest at number 1 out of those 4 great all-rounders, according to the algorithm. Despite generally being ranked the 4th of those, by most.
Edit. Probably Nah. Actually Botham was ranked first from 78 to 83 uninterrupted.
Hadlee ranked himself as the best bowler and worst batsman of the 4, so it makes sense that he reached the top when he was batting as well or better than they were since he usually had the best bowling.
On the topic of Chatfield, Hadlee is effusive in his praise of Chats in Rhythm and Swing (and everywhere else when it comes up). He contributes a lot of his success to that partnership because people couldn't just wait Hadlee out - there was pressure and no runs at both ends, so his nice overpitched outswingers were much more enticing after 4 maiden overs than if they had already taken 30 off 4 overs at the other end.
Yep terrific read that ( I somehow have two copies on the bookshelf ! )
Chatfield complemented Hadlee beautifully but I can’t believe he got as high as four…..just look at who else was playing ? The other three all rounders, Willis, Wasim Akram was starting out, McDermott, loads of West Indians…..
Massive effort Chats
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Saw two or three beautiful stats about the latest England team vs India:
- Two of the bowlers selected were born after James Anderson made his England test debut
- Andrew Strauss retired >10 years ago, having played >100 tests and he made his debut for England after James Anderson...
Anderson is a freak.
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@Dodge said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Saw two or three beautiful stats about the latest England team vs India:
- Two of the bowlers selected were born after James Anderson made his England test debut
- Andrew Strauss retired >10 years ago, having played >100 tests and he made his debut for England after James Anderson...
Anderson is a freak.
What do you think is driving him on now? Or is it just the love of the game? With his economical action and his mastery of his craft, he could conceivably play a few more years barring injury.
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@Dodge said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Saw two or three beautiful stats about the latest England team vs India:
- Two of the bowlers selected were born after James Anderson made his England test debut
- Andrew Strauss retired >10 years ago, having played >100 tests and he made his debut for England after James Anderson...
Anderson is a freak.
He’s actually gotten better with age too.
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@MN5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Dodge said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Saw two or three beautiful stats about the latest England team vs India:
- Two of the bowlers selected were born after James Anderson made his England test debut
- Andrew Strauss retired >10 years ago, having played >100 tests and he made his debut for England after James Anderson...
Anderson is a freak.
He’s actually gotten better with age too.
and has classic Lancashire grumpiness. Chuntering away on the field. Love it.
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@KiwiPie said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Dodge said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
Saw two or three beautiful stats about the latest England team vs India:
- Two of the bowlers selected were born after James Anderson made his England test debut
- Andrew Strauss retired >10 years ago, having played >100 tests and he made his debut for England after James Anderson...
Anderson is a freak.
What do you think is driving him on now? Or is it just the love of the game? With his economical action and his mastery of his craft, he could conceivably play a few more years barring injury.
Just enjoys playing I guess. You’re a long time retired and all that. His average since turning 35 is something ridiculous like 22. Took some beauties in the last test and still has frightening control of the ball (shame he was out of nick in the ashes last summer tbh)
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@MN5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Dan54 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 Yep mate, Chats faced more balls, Coney laughingly thanked Chats for protecting him from the strike on aftermatch tv interview.
But point taken, after that innings we couldn't put him in same boat as Martin.
I kind of wish I still enjoyed cricket like I did back then!I hear that. Those 80s legends were in the most part actually far from legends….but they were to us !
A tail ender getting a gutsy innings is one of my favourite things in cricket
It was probably a grittier innings than what we give credit for, it was pre the days of helmets been commonplace, Lance Cairns had already been hit in the head and retired hurt in the same innings. Apparently in the lunch break Chats was trying to drink a cup of tea and his hands were shaking so much most of it spilt into the saucer before he could drink it.
So the guy was absolutely packing himself, but held himself and his limited ability together to lead us to victory. Pure grit really.
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@Windows97 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Dan54 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 Yep mate, Chats faced more balls, Coney laughingly thanked Chats for protecting him from the strike on aftermatch tv interview.
But point taken, after that innings we couldn't put him in same boat as Martin.
I kind of wish I still enjoyed cricket like I did back then!I hear that. Those 80s legends were in the most part actually far from legends….but they were to us !
A tail ender getting a gutsy innings is one of my favourite things in cricket
It was probably a grittier innings than what we give credit for, it was pre the days of helmets been commonplace, Lance Cairns had already been hit in the head and retired hurt in the same innings. Apparently in the lunch break Chats was trying to drink a cup of tea and his hands were shaking so much most of it spilt into the saucer before he could drink it.
So the guy was absolutely packing himself, but held himself and his limited ability together to lead us to victory. Pure grit really.
…..and there in lies the proof that cricket was invented by a batsman, if a guy can’t bowl ( Stephen Fleming never turned the arm over ONCE in 111 tests ) he doesn’t have to.
But there are loads of instances of tail Enders heroically saving the day. I love it !
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Here's a headline: Chatfield scythes thru Aussie batting
The guy gets underrated for his bowling. The argument sometimes trotted out that Hadlee 'had no competition for the wickets' isn't the best one. As @Godder notes, if the bowling was pants at the other end, the tactic would have just been to see out Hadlee as best as possible, and take fewer risks.
