Cricket - best ever, trivia etc
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@MN5 He arguably didn't play enough, but Glenn Turner has a great ODI record - and it would be even better aside from a slightly shaky start and finish. Much higher average than Astle and only a slightly worse strike rate.
Eventually, the modern guys stats will overwhelm the older guys - Conway and/or Ravindra to displace Astle. Mitchell to displace Marty.
Chris Pringle vs Boult is also worth consideration.
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@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 He arguably didn't play enough, but Glenn Turner has a great ODI record - and it would be even better aside from a slightly shaky start and finish. Much higher average than Astle and only a slightly worse strike rate.
Eventually, the modern guys stats will overwhelm the older guys - Conway and/or Ravindra to displace Astle. Mitchell to displace Marty.
Chris Pringle vs Boult is also worth consideration.
yeah I think that’s the point I was making. Boult seems to make these teams by right when perhaps he shouldn’t
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@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 He arguably didn't play enough, but Glenn Turner has a great ODI record - and it would be even better aside from a slightly shaky start and finish. Much higher average than Astle and only a slightly worse strike rate.
Eventually, the modern guys stats will overwhelm the older guys - Conway and/or Ravindra to displace Astle. Mitchell to displace Marty.
Chris Pringle vs Boult is also worth consideration.
I don't think Crowe will ever be replaced. To borrow a word from the ABs, he has an aura that I don't think any other kiwi batsman has matched, and that matters a ton in these kinds of exercises. Kane is the undisputed number 1 batsman now by virtue of his average and number of centuries, but I don't think he matches Crowe's aura. Partly because Crowe retired due to injury and leaves us with that what if and partly because of Crowe's performances against Australia, which rightly or wrongly count for more in the kiwi sporting psyche.
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@Cyclops said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 He arguably didn't play enough, but Glenn Turner has a great ODI record - and it would be even better aside from a slightly shaky start and finish. Much higher average than Astle and only a slightly worse strike rate.
Eventually, the modern guys stats will overwhelm the older guys - Conway and/or Ravindra to displace Astle. Mitchell to displace Marty.
Chris Pringle vs Boult is also worth consideration.
I don't think Crowe will ever be replaced. To borrow a word from the ABs, he has an aura that I don't think any other kiwi batsman has matched, and that matters a ton in these kinds of exercises. Kane is the undisputed number 1 batsman now by virtue of his average and number of centuries, but I don't think he matches Crowe's aura. Partly because Crowe retired due to injury and leaves us with that what if and partly because of Crowe's performances against Australia, which rightly or wrongly count for more in the kiwi sporting psyche.
Dying young has an impact too.
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@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Cyclops I won't mind that at all.
I suspect he'll end up being a bit like Pinetree Meads.
Na Hadlee is our Pinetree.
Crowe was an excellent player but Hadlee stands alone. Kane Williamson will have a say once he retires though
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@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 Actually, I thought about that before I posted.
Hadlee is still the first name you pick in the all time team. He's more an NZ Bradman.
Pinetree doesn't make the team anymore, but an amazing product of his time.
I’d still comfortably rate Crowe our third best ever cricketer though.
An average of 45 was damn superb for that time being such an era of outstanding pace bowlers. As others have said he was probably a better player than those numbers and there were very few guys in his time who averaged higher.
Paddles and KW are on the next rung up though.
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@MN5 I'm not convinced Kane (or even Sir Paddles) is a rung up on Marty. You're talking about guys who were among the best in their era. Perhaps all three were (the best) for a brief period - but, none were clearly so and for an extended period.
Not many are.
It would be interesting to see how they are regarded 100 years from now.
They may all be like Dempster, Cowie and Donnelly. Hardly anyone wants to consider them.
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@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 I'm not convinced Kane (or even Sir Paddles) is a rung up on Marty. You're talking about guys who were among the best in their era. Perhaps all three were (the best) for a brief period - but, none were clearly so and for an extended period.
Not many are.
It would be interesting to see how they are regarded 100 years from now.
They may all be like Dempster, Cowie and Donnelly. Hardly anyone wants to consider them.
Haha, I was just wondering that very thing !
Paddles broke the record for most wickets, single handedly carried the bowling attack and was one of the big four outstanding all rounders of the era. Who is the best of that lot is up for debate, as long as it’s not Kapil ! Hadlees name pops up whenever people are discussing the best pace bowlers of all time.
Needless to say he was rated number one in both formats during his career.
KW is currently the world’s best test batsman. Again, he’s competing with three other superb international batsmen and you can argue which of them is the best til the cows come home. Best ever ODI ranking of 3rd and the two formats are way further apart than in the 80s and 90s.
Now Google tells me Crowes best ever ranking in test cricket was 4th, 2nd in ODI.
I think that proves my point.
( admittedly I’m struggling to think of three better test batsmen of his era than him……Richards, Border……Gooch, Gower or Richardson perhaps might have snuck up ? Tendulkar and Lara were too young……)
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Looks like Marty got himself to No. 4 on half a dozen occasions - first time he had Border and Viv ahead of him - but, Dilip Vengsarkar was No. 1!
Surprisingly (for me), Sir Paddles was number 1 bowler for most of the mid-late 1980s.
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@MN5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 I'm not convinced Kane (or even Sir Paddles) is a rung up on Marty. You're talking about guys who were among the best in their era. Perhaps all three were (the best) for a brief period - but, none were clearly so and for an extended period.
Not many are.
It would be interesting to see how they are regarded 100 years from now.
They may all be like Dempster, Cowie and Donnelly. Hardly anyone wants to consider them.
Haha, I was just wondering that very thing !
Paddles broke the record for most wickets, single handedly carried the bowling attack and was one of the big four outstanding all rounders of the era. Who is the best of that lot is up for debate, as long as it’s not Kapil ! Hadlees name pops up whenever people are discussing the best pace bowlers of all time.
Needless to say he was rated number one in both formats during his career.
KW is currently the world’s best test batsman. Again, he’s competing with three other superb international batsmen and you can argue which of them is the best til the cows come home. Best ever ODI ranking of 3rd and the two formats are way further apart than in the 80s and 90s.
Now Google tells me Crowes best ever ranking in test cricket was 4th, 2nd in ODI.
I think that proves my point.
( admittedly I’m struggling to think of three better test batsmen of his era than him……Richards, Border……Gooch, Gower or Richardson perhaps might have snuck up ? Tendulkar and Lara were too young……)
Earlier in his career, some other potential betters were Gavaskar, Miandad, Lloyd, Greenidge to name a few. In the last few years of Crowe's career, Lara and Tendulkar by the end. Around 1991-1993, Crowe was arguably close to the best in the world.
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@Godder said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@Chris-B said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 I'm not convinced Kane (or even Sir Paddles) is a rung up on Marty. You're talking about guys who were among the best in their era. Perhaps all three were (the best) for a brief period - but, none were clearly so and for an extended period.
Not many are.
It would be interesting to see how they are regarded 100 years from now.
They may all be like Dempster, Cowie and Donnelly. Hardly anyone wants to consider them.
Haha, I was just wondering that very thing !
Paddles broke the record for most wickets, single handedly carried the bowling attack and was one of the big four outstanding all rounders of the era. Who is the best of that lot is up for debate, as long as it’s not Kapil ! Hadlees name pops up whenever people are discussing the best pace bowlers of all time.
Needless to say he was rated number one in both formats during his career.
KW is currently the world’s best test batsman. Again, he’s competing with three other superb international batsmen and you can argue which of them is the best til the cows come home. Best ever ODI ranking of 3rd and the two formats are way further apart than in the 80s and 90s.
Now Google tells me Crowes best ever ranking in test cricket was 4th, 2nd in ODI.
I think that proves my point.
( admittedly I’m struggling to think of three better test batsmen of his era than him……Richards, Border……Gooch, Gower or Richardson perhaps might have snuck up ? Tendulkar and Lara were too young……)
Earlier in his career, some other potential betters were Gavaskar, Miandad, Lloyd, Greenidge to name a few. In the last few years of Crowe's career, Lara and Tendulkar by the end. Around 1991-1993, Crowe was arguably close to the best in the world.
I think that’s pretty much what I said ? So very good, our third best player ever but not absolute elite.
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Has cricket ever known a worse batsman than Chris Martin ?
Even that Indian number 11 Nirender Hirwani ( who Kapil Dev shielded to get four sixes to avoid the follow on against England ) was better with 54 test runs at 5.40 ( 66 test wickets )
Martin got 123 test runs at 2.36 ( compared to 233 test wickets ).
He dominated the lesser attacks at first class level with 479 runs at 3.71 ( compared to 599 wickets ) but the average was boosted by a staggering 115 not outs in 244 innings.
Brian Lara once got more runs in a single innings than Martin managed in the aforementioned 244.
As a paceman he had nice swing and seam movement without the scary pace, If you take out the batting side of things and only compare bowling and fielding he was pretty much on par with the great Jacques Kallis I reckon.
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@MN5 Mate Farmer Chatfield wants a word.
Real Chats fan, and will always remember watching him get a huge (for him) score of 20 odd (I think) against Pakistan. Pakistan were trying to keep him on strike and Jeremy Coney was at other end. He somehow managed to get his bat or pads in way for quite sometime to help NZ win test.
One memory is him throwing bat at ball, hit it clean as , it shot away was always a 4, Coney at other end took a couple of steps and stopped mid pitch to watch ball go over boundary, Chats passed him twice tearing up and down the pitch never looking or imagining he could hit a boundary. It was worth watching the whole test to see that. Lol. -
@Dan54 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 Mate Farmer Chatfield wants a word.
Real Chats fan, and will always remember watching him get a huge (for him) score of 20 odd (I think) against Pakistan. Pakistan were trying to keep him on strike and Jeremy Coney was at other end. He somehow managed to get his bat or pads in way for quite sometime to help NZ win test.
One memory is him throwing bat at ball, hit it clean as , it shot away was always a 4, Coney at other end took a couple of steps and stopped mid pitch to watch ball go over boundary, Chats passed him twice tearing up and down the pitch never looking or imagining he could hit a boundary. It was worth watching the whole test to see that. Lol.I can’t consider the Naenae express. That innings was pretty damn legendary all things considered but I think that’s my point. Also a batting average of 8.57 is streaks ahead of Martin ! Didn’t Chatfield actually face more balls than Coney in that partnership ?
Phil Tufnell warrants a mention. Courtney Walsh was pretty shite too.
I’m not sure I can consider Glenn McGrath after a 50 against us.
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@MN5 Yep mate, Chats faced more balls, Coney laughingly thanked Chats for protecting him from the strike on aftermatch tv interview.
But point taken, after that innings we couldn't put him in same boat as Martin.
I kind of wish I still enjoyed cricket like I did back then! -
@Dan54 said in Cricket - best ever, trivia etc:
@MN5 Yep mate, Chats faced more balls, Coney laughingly thanked Chats for protecting him from the strike on aftermatch tv interview.
But point taken, after that innings we couldn't put him in same boat as Martin.
I kind of wish I still enjoyed cricket like I did back then!I hear that. Those 80s legends were in the most part actually far from legends….but they were to us !
A tail ender getting a gutsy innings is one of my favourite things in cricket
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Further to the post from @Dan54 about liking cricket more back in the day, it’s an excellent point and we seem to judge todays players so much harsher than the battlers of yesteryear. If Henry Nicholls played in the mid 80s I’m sure he’d be much more revered than he is today. Southee gets grief for irresponsible batting but Lance Cairns was lauded for his occasional big hits.
