Otago 2023
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@SouthernMann Fair enough, will teach me to read the whole thread instead of bits of it haha.
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Another game of frustration. Barring a miracle, that's finals footy gone already, and to me with some of the players we have got, that is unacceptable. Donnelly should be given the boot at the end of the season, but not sure it will happen... there were some things to take away from that game though:
- Great batch of young props, @SouthernMann has talked him up, Wingham looks the business and will be a Lander in 2025 you'd think. Ma'u has looked superb with the increased game time, and seems to be putting his size to full effect, and is fulfilling the potential we know he has. Expect him to potentially push past Ainsley for the Landers
- Both Bell and Jackson are tidy options at this level, think Bell takes better options around the feed, and was dynamic when he came on
- Great set of locks... Fabian Holland, what a footballer. All Black in waiting
- Loosies all did well, but how about that for a debut from Will Stodart? They said he went off injured at the end which was a shame, hopefully not too bad. Surely a Lander in waiting be it 25' or 26'. Lio-Willie's replacement right there
- Both halfbacks are tidy, like the look of Hastie, particularly with his good left boot. Probably could work at being a little quicker round the field, but think it is more of an angles thing which will come with playing more games
- Faleafaga with another solid game... gut feel is that he is going to more of a 12 than a 10. I'm yet to see a kicking game which convinces me he could play 10 at SR level. Don't think he controls the game as well as Millar either.
- Leslie solid, best I have seen from Te Hiwi. Definitely better balanced than TUJ and Te Hiwi. Playmaker at 12, hard runner at 13 looks the way to me
- I say it every time, and actually thought he was better vs. BOP, but Hurley isn't the man - not even for Otago. Does he have flashes of brilliance? Of course, but lacks the big boot, and has yet to break a game open, and does those stupid dinky kicks which give away possession every time.
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@pakman I was going to suggest this, but think it is a case of one step at a time. To me, he looks like another Ethan de Groot, just playing on the other side of the scrum.
A tight five of de Groot, Whichever hooker, Ma'u, Holland and Parkinson has some serious size to it. Probably means the Highlanders can be a little more mobile in the loose, with something like Haig, Harmon and Broughton.
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@frugby said in Otago 2023:
Barring a miracle, that's finals footy gone already
It's unlikely but remember this dumb competition has QF's. 8 out of 14 teams play finals footy
Otago with 1 win from 6 games is still only 4 points off of 8th place
Remaining games:
v Northland (Dunedin)
v Taranaki (Dunedin)
v Waikato (Hamilton)
v Counties (Dunedin)Win all four and Otago would surely be top 8
Win three and it will be close -
@Duluth said in Otago 2023:
@frugby said in Otago 2023:
Barring a miracle, that's finals footy gone already
It's unlikely but remember this dumb competition has QF's. 8 out of 14 teams play finals footy
Otago with 1 win from 6 games is still only 4 points off of 8th place
Remaining games:
v Northland (Dunedin)
v Taranaki (Dunedin)
v Waikato (Hamilton)
v Counties (Dunedin)Win all four and Otago would surely be top 8
Win three and it will be closeYou could be right, but we missed out with five wins last year, and we haven't picked up many bonus points.
I've seen nothing though, that convinces me we can win four in a row.
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As FrRugby mentions the forward stock is looking really impressive. I'm confident all is going well there.
With the backs I believe our biggest problem is we are working through a process of understanding the capability of our young players. What their positions, talent ceilings, combinations and style. This is the stuff you previously ironed out at club rugby. Now it has to occur at provincial rugby.
The problem is, we have a range of players who are still stuck carrying the utility label. Gilbert especially. Te Hiwi probably some confusion around whether he is a 12 or 13. Whaanga will eventually be a 13, however he is talented and warrants a place on the wing.
Hurley, it just seems we are making the same mistakes with him we did with Koroi.
I do think Faleafaga is a 10. He just needs to work on his tactical game management kicking.
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weird one, as ive got older im much more likely to pick up a cap or beanie for one of my teams than a jersey or even a hoodie...the downside being decent caps are few and far between for rugby teams IMO, couple of months back Otago announced they were dropping a Corduroy Cap....description might not sell it but i thought it looked cool and they obviously thought it was worth mentioning in its own post.....never seen it mentioned again and is not on their store, seen the staff wearing them on game day...weird
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This season is basically done, and it could hardly have gone any worse. Has been a gloomy year for the footy teams I support to say the least!
Looking ahead to next year, it will be interesting to see what happens around the coaching situation, and how the playing squad shapes up... if Donnelly were to get the sack, or if he were to walk, Mackintosh and Ben Smith are the two names who will pop up.
Neither have any head coaching credentials, though that I think is the same for all of our coaches since and including Tony Brown. Whoppa could certainly harness a good environment, so perhaps he takes it on with Bender just given the attack portfolio. Not sure who drives the attack at the moment, but find it hard to believe Bender would have the team playing such boring, defensive rugby. I believe it may be Flutey... he should be on borrowed time too, has hardly done anything good with the Landers.
What they need to do is work out a better, more attractive gameplan that will get the best out of the side. Most of the gaps will be filled by academy players... The tight five, barring Dickson should be back, along with Bower, which will mean five really good props. The next lock will be one of those Highlanders academy boys I'd imagine, or maybe Dunshea might transfer down. Lio-Willie likely to be the only major loose forward departure, but we have hardly struggled there, and that is offset by the return of Haig. Been impressed with Stodart in the 140 minutes he has played.
As for the backs, TUJ & Timu may be heading overseas, whilst Naholo will be chopped. Need to find a winger ideally, but reckon things are looking fairly stable.
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The forward pack is great.
The backline I genuinely think have a fair bit of talent. But, for a fair bit of the season we have borderline run a colts backline. They need to have some time in the gym, get bigger, become smarter rugby players. THis is a very young team, especially in the backs.
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2023:
The forward pack is great.
The backline I genuinely think have a fair bit of talent. But, for a fair bit of the season we have borderline run a colts backline. They need to have some time in the gym, get bigger, become smarter rugby players. THis is a very young team, especially in the backs.
For sure, but I'd also say Donnelly picked this team, and whatever caveats we might say, he hasn't got the best out of it. Playing a 12,13,14 of TUJ, Te Hiwi and Whaanga is incredibly slow. All individually good players, but they don't balance each other at all. Outside of Nareki, and Gilbert on occasion, we have not seen any real spark. I've seen far worse players carve things open for Otago, thinking of a Jayden Spence, a Marshall Suckling, a Faasiu Fuatai. Hardly worldbeaters, but had a bit of acceleration. We certainly looked better with Leslie at 12, but don't think we have got the gameplan right to get the best out of these young guys.
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So there ends a frustrating season for the Golden O, and a painful year really considering we all support the Highlanders as well!
That game showed many things, but mainly what can bloody happen when you don't kick the ball away. I don't know if there are any stats readily available, but my gut feel would be we kicked way less, certainly less of those stupid dinky kicks + grubbers anyway.
Hastie was awesome when we did kick, because at least he gets some height and distance on them. Until that incredible last play, didn't think Faleafaga was great, but that last ball showed exactly what he is capable of.
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Anyway, some end of season ratings:
PROPS:
Abraham Pole: 8/10
Rohan Wingham: 7.5/10
Ben Lopas: 6.5/10
Jermaine Ainsley: 7.5/10
Saula Ma'u: 8.5/10Thought the whole unit was really good, with our scrum going very well. Ma'u came on massively, and would really like to see him start a few more games for the Landers next year. Him and de Groot would be the start of a monstrous front row for certain games.
HOOKERS:
Henry Bell: 7/10
Ricky Jackson: 6/10Both started the season a little slowly, but by the end of it, I thought Bell in particular was looking good. Does the basics well, and is really busy in and around the fringes which I like. Will be fascinating to see how he goes in Super Rugby
LOCKS:
Josh Dickson: 7/10
Fabian Holland: 8.5/10
Will Tucker: 5/10
Josh Hill: 6/10Dickson and Hill were fine, and the latter shapes as an acceptable replacement for the former, who departs for the land of the rising sun. Reckon Holland was really good, but misused by Donnelly, who didn't really get the best out of him. I just don't see it with Will Tucker. My guess is Donnelly likes him, which is probably why he gets a Highlanders gig, but I think he is decidedly average, though admittedly fine for Otago.
LOOSE FORWARDS:
Christian Lio-Willie: 8/10
Tom Sanders: 6/10
Sean Withy: 5.5/10
Sam Fischli: 5/10
Harry Taylor: 6/10
Will Stodart: 7/10Not sure we really got the best out of our loose forward trio for one reason or another. Lio-Willie was dominant, but the rest, barring Stodart, who clearly should have had way more game time, were either disappointing or just played to their low level of ability. Withy and Sanders in particular weren't as good as you might have liked...
HALFBACKS:
James Arscott: 6/10
Kieran McClea: 5.5/10
Nathan Hastie: 7/10The big cock-up by the coaches, and you wonder whether it might have cost us quite possibly was the halfback situation. Hastie is clearly the pick of the bunch, and was massively underused. The issue here was really they had the pecking order wrong, rather than the way any of the individuals performed
FIRST FIVES:
Cam Millar: 6/10
Ajay Faleafaga: 6/10Millar hardly sighted, though was good when he played. Hopefully he can get over these injuries. Faleafaga didn't rock my world, and can't control a game with his boot. Could he blossom into a superb playmaker in a better team? Time will tell. I mean Aaron Cruden was a very good All Black 10 despite having a fairly rubbish punt, so it isn't impossible, but the rest of his game will have to be so good. The one thing I will say about Faleafaga, is he doesn't really seem to take dumb options like a Josh Ioane used to. Occasionally there is an average kick, but that is more of a reflection of a rubbish gameplan I think
MIDFIELDERS:
Thomas Umaga-Jensen: 6.5/10
Jake Te Hiwi: 6.5/10
Josh Whaanga: 7.5/10
Jack Leslie: 6.5/10None of these were individually bad, and were a victim of poor tactics/selection choices. Most of these make bad combinations together, but were actually individually pretty good. The cynic in me wonders if you will ever see TUJ for Otago again. Whaanga capped off a good first season with a great final outing. Hopefully he can grow into being a really strong dependable 13 option, because he certainly isn't a winger. Just not sure he could play with Te Hiwi, as that is a fairly slow midfield.
OUTSIDE BACKS:
Sam Gilbert: 7.5/10
Jona Nareki: 7/10
Finn Hurley: 5/10
John Tapueluelu: 6/10
Jeremiah Asi: 6/10Once again, our outsides were victims of the dumb tactics... Gilbert played a bit of everywhere, but we are clearly better when he is on the field. I suspect he might settle at 12, and if he does, he needs to focus on using his frame. Just show him videos of Jordie Barrett, because if he can be 85-90% of that, I'd take it. Nareki and Tavatavanawai are going to be a great pairing on the wings for the Landers... Asi and Tapueluelu were fine, but Hurley the interesting one. Clearly has some pace and skills, but I just don't think he can fight his size. Will always have some great highlight moments, but despite his guts, he can't defend, and generally speaking struggles in contact. A shame for him, but maybe he should give 7s a crack, or work on something offshore. I don't think he will ever be a Highlander.
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I do wonder whether Hurley could be converted to a halfback? A spot where plenty of blokes his size have thrived.
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2023:
I do wonder whether Hurley could be converted to a halfback? A spot where plenty of blokes his size have thrived.
Have thought the same thing myself…but there is no shortage of halfbacks around Dunedin it seems so he’d have to be the absolute goods and leapfrog others that have history
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2023:
I do wonder whether Hurley could be converted to a halfback? A spot where plenty of blokes his size have thrived.
Totally different skill-set though. You looking for totally different strengths, so I don't think so.
