Crusaders 2016 and 2017

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="600932" data-time="1469680659">
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Underwhelmed.
 
We had AB-ineligible and very average Volavola this season, now we have AB-ineligible and 31 year old Digby Ioane, who I think made no waves at all during his time at Stade Francais.
 
Wing is a young man's game...
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Cory Jane hasn't been that bad ...

mariner4life

Cory Jane is, and always has been, a far superior player to Ioane though.
 
I was never taken with Digby to the extent some were. I saw a lot of metres run, but not many of those were forwards, there was a lot of crab stuff. Couldn't catch a high ball either. 
 
Now that he is less dynamic on his feet, he better have developed some of his other footy skills or this is going to be an underwhelming signing.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="600935" data-time="1469680828">
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Cory Jane hasn't been that bad ...
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Exception does not the prove the rule.
 
I see Sammy C mentioned him as a step up from Fonatia. That is damning with the faintest of praise. But I would be happy if he turns out to be a viable 13 option.

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="600938" data-time="1469681024">
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Cory Jane is, and always has been, a far superior player to Ioane though.
 
I was never taken with Digby to the extent some were. I saw a lot of metres run, but not many of those were forwards, there was a lot of crab stuff. Couldn't catch a high ball either. 
 
Now that he is less dynamic on his feet, he better have developed some of his other footy skills or this is going to be an underwhelming signing. 
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I should have worded it differently. I only meant to say that being over 30 doesn't necessarily mean he can't play well as a winger (or midfielder).
 
I didn't mean to compare the two players (other than with respect to age), because they're entirely different players (also physically).
 
What I find a much bigger "problem" than his age is that Ioane been out of SH rugby/Super Rugby for some years now, and players don't tend to get better when they're playing in Europe or Japan. But Nadolo proved it can be done, so I will give Ioane the benefit of the doubt.

Stargazer

By the way, all those Ioane's in Super Rugby will become like all the Smith's in Super Rugby: requiring initials!
 
Brothers Akira and Reiko. Digby. Where's TJ Ioane? Isn't there a Monty Ioane somewhere?

Tim

There's an Ioane Ioane in Auckland club rugby.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="600784" data-time="1469659902">
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Throwing lots of money at a man who's never played 15s? Not knowing whether he'll convert into an SBW or a Benji Marshall? Yeah right.
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Ah yeah I probably should have included one of these :fishing:
Although I reckon it would have been a better signing than Digby Ioane.
 
On a more serious note, how long is Laumape contracted to the canes for? He didn't seem to get a look in after a decent start to the season. Poach him!

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="601087" data-time="1469714604">
Ah yeah I probably should have included one of these :fishing: 
Although I reckon it would have been a better signing than Digby Ioane. 
On a more serious note, how long is Laumape contracted to the canes for? He didn't seem to get a look in after a decent start to the season. Poach him!</blockquote>
 
Don't know but him or Goosen should really be on the bench instead of Savea. 
Julian's confidence isn't going to magically get better starting from the bench.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="600933" data-time="1469680730">
<div>And he comes from Japan with a recommendation from Robbie. That's good enough for me.</div>
</blockquote>
 
And if anyone knows how to develop outside backs it is Deans. The most dynamic outside back he produced in 8 years at the Crusaders was Leon MacDonald - quite the achievement.
 
They had to name Berryman at 14 in one of their all time teams because they were so have been so historically poor on the wing. James Kerr was denied. Caleb Ralph was on the other from memory.

pukunui

Rico Gear was pretty dynamic.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="601380" data-time="1469841811">
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Rico Gear was pretty dynamic.
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Blues/7s product.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="601377" data-time="1469840371">
And if anyone knows how to develop outside backs it is Deans. The most dynamic outside back he produced in 8 years at the Crusaders was Leon MacDonald - quite the achievement. 
They had to name Berryman at 14 in one of their all time teams because they were so have been so historically poor on the wing. James Kerr was denied. Caleb Ralph was on the other from memory.</blockquote>
 
Broken record time. 
I'll trust the man with 5 super titles in 8 seasons thank you.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601387" data-time="1469844724">
Broken record time. 
I'll trust the man with 5 super titles in 8 seasons thank you.</blockquote>
 
Fair enough. In a much similar way I get most of my rugby opinions from Phil Kearns because he won 2 out of 3 World Cups.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="601401" data-time="1469851021">
Fair enough. In a much similar way I get most of my rugby opinions from Phil Kearns because he won 2 out of 3 World Cups.</blockquote>
 
Apples and oranges, Kearns isn't a coach and I doubt he was responsible for the team selection in those world cups (which is what we are discussing isn't it?) 
Fucking great player though.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="601377" data-time="1469840371">
<div>
And if anyone knows how to develop outside backs it is Deans. The most dynamic outside back he produced in 8 years at the Crusaders was Leon MacDonald - quite the achievement.
 
They had to name Berryman at 14 in one of their all time teams because they were so have been so historically poor on the wing. James Kerr was denied. Caleb Ralph was on the other from memory.
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</blockquote>
 
Poor old James Kerr couldn't even get a mention on that NZ Battlers FB page, he must have pissed someone off cos if anyone came up against some huge names in NZ Rugby ( and to be honest did pretty well ) in the 90s and 2000s it was him

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601404" data-time="1469851232">
Apples and oranges, Kearns isn't a coach and I doubt he was responsible for the team selection in those world cups (which is what we are discussing isn't it?) 
Fucking great player though.</blockquote>
 
I guess the general point was just because they won those titles it doesn't mean aspects of that team weren't beyond criticism. 
Deans' Crusaders won through their loosies and 9-10-12 axis, not with blistering backlines. Similarly his Australian backlines underwhelmed. If Tana is to believed he was also the guy that completely bungled the '03 backline in the semi. The only reason to think he is an outstanding attacking mind is that he understood he needed to basically blood the entire '03 Henry Blues backline to be competitive that season. 
His opinion is interesting and worth listening to like any professional coach with a decent record but I'll look at his baffling backline decisions of the past and take it with a massive grain of salt. He isn't Wayne Smith.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="601406" data-time="1469851736">
I guess the general point was just because they won those titles it doesn't mean aspects of that team weren't beyond criticism. 
Deans' Crusaders won through their loosies and 9-10-12 axis, not with blistering backlines. Similarly his Australian backlines underwhelmed. If Tana is to believed he was also the guy that completely bungled the '03 backline in the semi. The only reason to think he is an outstanding attacking mind is that he understood he needed to basically blood the entire '03 Henry Blues backline to be competitive that season. 
His opinion is interesting and worth listening to like any professional coach with a decent record but I'll look at his baffling backline decisions of the past and take it with a massive grain of salt. He isn't Wayne Smith.</blockquote>
 
Fair enough, and to be honest I can't be fucked getting into the same argument I've had with you several times on here before. I knew you'd bring up Tana sooner or later. 
I've read Tanas book, and it's basically one big whinge against everyone he doesn't like. Only Norm Hewitt ranks alongside him in the crybaby stakes in my opinion. 
We disagree on Deans, let's move on 
I'm a bit biased as I was a massive digby fan, he was an outstanding athlete in his prime, I'm hoping he's still got that and brings it to the crusaders next year. You and I won't know until we see him play

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="600897" data-time="1469674607">
If he crosses the chalk I hope he pulls out the "Caterpillar" again. <a class="bbc_url" href="

">

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Anyone that grew up in the 80s and was a fan of hip hop culture /breakdancing will know that's not the caterpillar :) 
I believe it's called the jackhammer

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601409" data-time="1469852126">
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Fair enough, and to be honest I can't be fucked getting into the same argument I've had with you several times on here before. I knew you'd bring up Tana sooner or later. 
I've read Tanas book, and it's basically one big whinge against everyone he doesn't like. Only Norm Hewitt ranks alongside him in the crybaby stakes in my opinion. 
We disagree on Deans, let's move on I'm a bit biased as I was a massive digby fan, he was an outstanding athlete in his prime, I'm hoping he's still got that and brings it to the crusaders next year. You and I won't know until we see him play
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</blockquote>
Yes, I hated it when he played against us too :)

shark

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="600566" data-time="1469582411">
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I don't agree with you, mostly because of that last phrase. It's a 15 man game and you don't win games and competitions just by having a great pack. The expectations were moderately low at the beginning of the season because the Crusaders lost all their playmakers, in addition to already having a failing backline in the previous years and the team starting with Dagg, Crotty and Fruean all out injured from the beginning of the season.
 
I think most people were surprised they did well, and when Dagg and Crotty came back firing (and before Nadolo's suspension), they smashed the Brumbies in Canberra and suddenly some people started thinking they could go all the way. Then Nadolo got suspended and Blackadder had a brain fart by starting Havili and putting Crotty on the bench against the Highlanders, and the backline fell apart again. That was the main reason they were smashed by the Highlanders. Then the June break happened and their momentum was gone (and Blackadder didn't stop having brain farts, such as starting Macilai against the Chiefs in Fiji instead of McNicholl, who was not injured).
 
If Robertson wants to win a Super Rugby title, a better game plan, better selections and rebuilding a good backline should be his main focus. Mo'unga has huge potential but needs experience around him. I see his situation not different to that of West at the Blues. The Blues have signed some awesome and experienced players in the backs (with Pulu, SBW in addition to Ranger and Moala). The Crusaders should do that, too. At the moment, the only big names in the backs are Crotty and Dagg. They need more (and I'm not convinced Digby Ioane should be one of them) to guide the young talent they have in Mo'unga, and whoever else they sign from NZU20s, their academy and elsewhere.
 
Edit: with Robertson himself a forward, I hope he will get a good assistant to coach the backs. Not sure who are in the frame ...
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Spot on, well said.
 
Someone mentioned Ioane could play centre. Well if that's the case, then a) we're still looking for two wingers (preferably one who can play fullback), and b) the midfield mix already includes Crotty, Havili'i, Freuan, Barrett and Goodhue - all of whom I would expect to be named in the expanded 2017 squad - so a sixth option is possibly a bit OTT. It's wingers we need, and if Ioane isn't one of the answers, then he's surplus to requirements for mine.
 
It's absolutely critical Razor gets his backline selections right, which is something Blackadder was terrible at. Shocking signings include Volavola, McKenzie and Tuitivake, plus selection howlers like Taylor at fullback and Fonotia and Thompson as wingers. I'm not sure how much freedom Razor will have in selection but ideally he'd jettison the two former players and have a really good look around for depth at 10 and fullback (is Midget Hunt really the answer?????), plus of course wingers. If we can't form a quality midfield next year out of the aforementioned quintet then we're screwed, and Razor isn't doing his job properly. I'm happy that Hall and Mo'unga will form a good partnership, the midfield should be exciting and a motivated Dagg gives us strike from at least one outside back position. Serviceable fellow squaddies include Drummond and Macilai. We need a 10, two wingers and a fullback or winger/fullback or 10/fullback.

The Silver Fern

Crusaders 2016 and 2017