Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whitelock > Retallick
Surely the far bigger discrepancy was
Scott Barrett > Vaai
Scooter was everywhere whereas Vaai was nowhere.
Whitelock's work at lineout time was unsurpassed.
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whitelock > Retallick
Surely the far bigger discrepancy was
Scott Barrett > Vaai
Scooter was everywhere whereas Vaai was nowhere.
Absolutely.
I'm not sure that Mo'unga was actually better than Dmac either and Christie versus Cane is well, anyway.
The thing that worries me about Mo'unga (and I'm happy to recognise that the Chiefs and other Super teams give them these opportunities) is that the Saders get downfield and in great positions off piggyback penalties and poor discipline.
His kicking game and manipulation of the field of play is not usually the reason that his team gets in the position to get points. Once they are there, he is lethal and tonight he was good in helping them get one good try, but if the Chiefs had better discipline, I think we'd easily be giving the kicking game to the Chiefs. That's a AB concern IMO.
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@Donsteppa said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Very flat. I was expecting us to win if it was an arm wrestle, otherwise I expected a Crusaders win to be much less close on the scoreboard.
Likewise. I was worried that if it was close that with the way we have played in second halves that the Chiefs class and pace would trouble us in the latter stages.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The Crusaders' wall in the last 7 minutes won the game.
Not what I expected, which was for us to battle stoically for 60 mins but lose in a battle of attrition to a team with better players, with one of World Rugby's most feral home crowds getting under the head of the officials with those godawful vuvucowbells.
But, no. What we got was an awesome contest, margin on a knife-edge all game, and it all hinged on playing smarter. What the Crusaders needed with a B- squad was to reduce it to an arm wrestle and then take their chances, and pray for mistakes or brain implosions from the opposition. And luckily the Chiefs were pretty fucking stupid most of the match. Right in front of the ref. They were the better team in flashes in the first half, and for the first 11 minutes or so of the second, but they were given heaps of chances to play smarter and blew it. There's probably more than half a dozen deliberate decisions taken by the Chiefs in the second half that with the benefit of hindsight they would have done something different.
And the Crusaders kept them close, played to their strengths, played down the right end of the field, were patient and disciplined, and stole it.
In an arm wrestle sometimes the key head-to-heads become critical, where key players are utilised or targeted and nullified, and tonight in a couple of key places were edged or dominated by the winners.
Mo'ounga > Dmac
Whitelock > Retallick
Christie > CaneThe best team won the final and are champions.
You’re deluding yourself. Had the score correctly been 15-20 with seven to go, Crusaders would have had to try and score a try from general play, something they’d failed to do for 73 minutes.
What they did do was accept the gift from heaven, which allowed them to put the wall up.
Duff decision for Chiefs to go for sticks with five to go.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
I didn't get to see it, but if the crowd was booing, that's really unacceptable and not cool at all. Regardless of the result, that was a good game of footy. I wish we had won, but you guys are pretty fucking good.
Edit: By the way, I checked social media and here is a direct quote from another Chief's supporter, so please don't take instances as indicative as the wider trend amongst supporters:
Was a great game. Very close & could've gone either way. Have to say, very disappointed with the Waikato crowd, booing the Crusaders when they went up for their medals. Not much sportsmanship shown. -
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Pretty pathetic end to an awesome game with the crowd booing the refs. To watch that game and come away whinging about the ref is everything wrong with rugby these days.
The assist coach was whinging in his half time TV interview, that was utterly class less
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Pretty pathetic end to an awesome game with the crowd booing the refs. To watch that game and come away whinging about the ref is everything wrong with rugby these days.
The unassailable fact is that, between the ref, touchies and TMO, Crusaders were improperly credited with seven points.
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
On any objective analysis, either both or neither ought to have stood. So either Chiefs 20 -- Crusaders 18 or 27 -- 25.
That is what is wrong with rugby nowadays: glaring mistakes using technology yielding an incorrect result.
Or put another way, while the Chiefs were the better team, they weren't sufficiently better to overcome officiating mistakes and three yellow cards.
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@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Also needs to be noted, the pathetic performance of the crowd at the presentations has removed any moral high ground over crowd behaviour from a huge number of posters here for decades.
Was the worst performance I've ever seen by a home crowd, having watched Rugby my entire life. It was legit feral.
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@Canerbry it's fairly common for officials to get booed by a home crowd in a close loss when they go up to accept their medals. It sucks but it happens.
Take the Chiefs and rugby out of it.
Team who has won 7 in a row gets booed by rival fans.
It happens everywhere.
Fans in Melbourne booed the hell out of the ref at the end of the Bledisloe I went to last year.
Queensland will get booed in the 3rd Origin when they are presented the Shield in Sydney in a few weeks
Aus will get booed by parts of the English crowd if they win the Ashes.
It's modern sport. It sucks but it's the reality.
Christchurch obviously hasn't had to deal with many home losses at all in Super Rugby - let alone home playoff losses (none). Fans threw shit at Carlos when he scored the winner in a regular season game nearly 20.years ago so i wouldn't go throwing stones in glass houses.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
The glaring forward pass at 36, ought to have been picked up by touchies or TMO (it was obvious on screen). So no Crusaders put in to lineout, nor Mo'unga try. It's absolutely clearcut.
THAT is why the inferior team won. I shouldn't have minded all that much, but this was the final, and the result of the entire tournament is flawed as a result.
The Chiefs did bloody well to make it so close, but if anything, if the scrum had correctly been given, I suspect the Chiefs would have run away with it in second.
The best thing about the game itself was the extreme skill of the Chiefs backs, which chopped up the Crusaders defense a number of time.
Sorry, but I can't take pleasure out of a falsely close encounter. Give me the Brumbies semi any time!
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
I know it's hard to see past a win, but if the Mo'unga try hadn't been incorrectly awarded the Saders would have been run over in second.
Perhaps to help you see the point, had Mo'unga's try been scrubbed and Narawa awarded a second the score would have been 27 - 18 at least, but probably a larger margin. Would you have not been complaining, or just put it down to the Chiefs being the 'better' team?
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@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
