Super Rugby 2024
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@Dan54 ....but isn't that what it is now? people already move between teams, a draft would just make it more clear to everyone. from memory in the AFL they still have to put themselves up for the draft...its still a choice, and you can have preferences on where to go they dont just get bought and sold and have to go places they dont want too, other people take up training contracts to stay local and try and earn a spot with their local team, like now we have people that take WTG contracts rather than trying their luck elsewhere
it really is just for people that want to play in the comp, to make a name for themselves and are happy to move
its also something the AFL uses to keep people interest in the offseason, build some hype, teams swap and trade picks so they can try and secure certain people
in saying that, i really was just point out that there are other sports that do it
@Tim yeah, if the unions arent trying to be sustainable businesses and grow their own income and rely on this "free money".....the long term future dont look good
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Super Rugby did used to have a kind of a draft system. Franchises could protect a certain number of players, then the rest were up for grabs. I cannot remember if it was voluntary on the part of the players though - did they have the option to leave for a season and the option to refuse, or did they have to go to the Franchise that wanted them?
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble If there were fewer teams, they could play all teams in the competition instead of 10 out of 13 (that's the current number). But it would be a great loss to the provinces that drop out.
Manawatu, Bay of Plenty, Ta$man?
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat That article is just regurgitating an earlier Stuff article (already posted in another thread) and adds literally one paragraph, in which Phil Waugh says he wants to discuss a draft with Robinson. No surprise, as a draft favours Australia much more than New Zealand. You're posting this stuff over and over again, like you're pushing an agenda.
Mark Robinson interview on 3 tonight at 7.30, he wants open eligibility across SR.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
can we all just accept that every union might be slightly different, like i said otago was 1 day away from liquidation in 2012 based on nearly 50% drop in revenue over 2 years...so some of us have very real memories of almost losing things...that doesn't mean hawkes bay is in the same boat....BUT, if teams do start to disappear the the more stable teams wont have as many teams to play....and so there is possibly a domino effect
I think the majority of the NPC teams have learnt to live within their means now and despite what fried says they generally at least break even, including the old big 5.
Regardless of a preference for the NPC or not if it goes we lose a crucial part of our development structure in NZ rugby.
When (for example) Fakatava first came into NPC rugby he was playing with a number of Super players and against a number of Super players giving him experience before playing Super rugby. Not every player is a Roks. The NPC is a stepping stone for NZ players.
On the draft, I don't mind if there's an after initial selection draft, like the old Super @Tim mentioned where the top 26 are selected and then others go into a draft - although it did lead to anomalies where the halfback Mark Robinson didn't get a contract when clearly inferior players did. And allowing players from NZ in Oz teams would probably mean that a few players would not need to go to MLR as an Oz team would pick them up.
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
Clayton McMillan doesn't like it because any kid having the option to live and play code in Sydney or Hamilton is probably not gonna choose the Waikato.
hmmmm, Coogeee or Ham East? hmmmm, let me just weigh that up (packs bags)
You've got to pretend that the Tahs aren't rubbish for this scenario. Young Ratima is going to weigh up playing decent rugby as well as the plastic blonde chicks at the Coogee Bay Hotel.
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No way, it is not like the other franchises don't already have at least five Kiwis per team and a number of Kiwi coaches. As it is the Aussie teams are getting a lot of their overseas talent back for 2024. I am not particularly fond of this Super Rugby arrangement with Oz as it is, it is only allowing them to improve. I would much prefer South Africa involved as well as Japan and Argentina.
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@Kiwiwomble I would wear a draft if players put themselves in it. But I not sure why that's different to now anyway, if any player is not in a squad he can approach any super club anyway?
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@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Super Rugby did used to have a kind of a draft system. Franchises could protect a certain number of players, then the rest were up for grabs. I cannot remember if it was voluntary on the part of the players though - did they have the option to leave for a season and the option to refuse, or did they have to go to the Franchise that wanted them?
As I recall the franchises all got together with the list of the players not locked in and worked it out based partly on approaches and talks with those players. You wouldn't want a player that didn't want to be part of your team.
That's also why it died out as the off the books discussions became professional negotiations and pre-testing by the franchises that took a more pro approach t was a waste of time for the others.
Still, a similar concept could still work using divided salary caps. One for your locked squad, everyone else goes into a pool and, like a tipping comp, you then have x $ to spend on your squad.If Oz were to go another direction we could add 2-3 more teams, open the comp to overseas players and head down the track of NZR owning the league full stop.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble I would wear a draft if players put themselves in it. But I not sure why that's different to now anyway, if any player is not in a squad he can approach any super club anyway?
thats actually what im saying, i dont think it would be hugely different....just more visual for the fans to follow, less unnamed rumour followed by an underwhelming post on social media about a new signing, let us all see who is putting their hand up for a challenge somewhere else
I know there are several on her that are all over the young guys coming through which is awesome but lots of us dont have the time or ability to follow them and so a bit of development in that space hyping those coming through and if they move where they might go and what strengths they might bring that Team A wants but Team B doesnt would be really interesting
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@Tim Nichol is so right about the secrecy of contract lengths for a lot of players in SR squads.
When I was looking at the Chiefs players based on what was publicly released I could only find information on about half the squad. Josh Ioane, for example, was only contracted for 2022 but was named again in the 2023 squad. Quite a few players are supposedly off-contract this year but could have re-signed for all we know.
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@Bovidae it's all very amateur hour.
No real updates on injuries is another bug-bear of mine.
When you follow a lot of American sport like I do the secrecy in NZ rugby is particularly annoying. I actually don't think it's secrecy TBH, it's just a lack of care for the fans and the sort of info we all want to see.
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@Bovidae It is a no-brainer and should have happened years ago, though a small part of me will miss the fun guessing games of, "He just followed that team." & "His latest story suggested he was leaving." I also think, a trading system/transfer system should have happened ages ago. For example, say the Blues had a propping crisis at loosehead this year, they could have traded Ayden Johnstone for AJ Lam etc.
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We often complain about poor comms coming out of the teams we support. Here is an example of why. An advertisement for a comms lead for the Hurricanes and Wellington. A lot of weekend work. A bit of crisis management and org comms. Paying about 50k under what someone with the desired skillset may command in a Wellington comms role. https://www.seek.co.nz/job/68153720?type=standard#sol=51eec86c561218f76a490e26cc39de6489ef8920
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@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Interesting that Nichol appears to be the face of change in NZ rugby in the media at the moment, yet it's his organisation that holds the key to many of the things he's mentioning (like NZers in Oz teams).
TBH, I'm not as hot on knowing all the contract details of every player as some on this thread are (I just wait for @Stargazer to post the info, the Super teams should all just hire him), whilst fully agreeing all teams can be better at comms. I don't like a franchise sharing a role with what should be a separate team though in the Canes/WRU case, but that's to be expected with the B/S setup of the Canes.
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@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby 2024:
We often complain about poor comms coming out of the teams we support. Here is an example of why. An advertisement for a comms lead for the Hurricanes and Wellington. A lot of weekend work. A bit of crisis management and org comms. Paying about 50k under what someone with the desired skillset may command in a Wellington comms role. https://www.seek.co.nz/job/68153720?type=standard#sol=51eec86c561218f76a490e26cc39de6489ef8920
Man, they certainly want everything for nothing.
No wonder the output to fans is low. There simply wouldn't be the time.
That salary for that workload surely wouldn't attract the experience you'd want.Pro sport only exists because fans exist. Fans that pay for merch/viewing/attendance/provide contacts to sponsors etc.
You'd think that comms and engagement would be the business area with the most easily traced relationship between investment (salaries etc) and targets.
However, if engagement isn't a KPI measure then maybe not.
