NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2
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@Chris said in NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2:
Yeah there was,It is showing out now as maybe not a sound idea.
Not if you want to win age grade.
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Beaten on everything but the scoreboard and tackle count.
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I suppose the question is are the Aussie forwards more equipped for SR and higher compared to our forwards.
So what is u/20s being used for development ? backs wise we always have that natural ability,but forwards a worry.
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@Chris said in NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2:
I suppose the question is are the Aussie forwards more equipped for SR and higher compared to our forwards.
So what is u/20s being used for development ? backs wise we always have that natural ability,but forwards a worry.
I think it has to be about exposing players and teaching them the reality of playing test match rugby at the top level. Playing Australia will be a massive step up from anything those players have had before. A lot of them will be straight out of school and used to carving up their local comp.
I don't think we need to win the U-20s for it to be worthwhile. Most years you only need a maximum of 4-5 ABs. I think it is fine to say that other skills can come later. Size I am not worried about, that can come in the gym. The bigger worry is if players at this level have poor decision making and fundamental skills (for instance, a hooker should be able to throw the ball in straight).
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@akan004 There are often very hot and very cold U20 years. In 2015 we had one of our best teams ever - the next year we didn't make the semis. It seems to mostly be based on the quality of our forwards.
One thing I have noticed is that we often shunt our props around on different sides of the scrum than that which they played at lower grades - perhaps with the aim of converting them prior to NPC/Super Rugby
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@Chris said in NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2:
I suppose the question is are the Aussie forwards more equipped for SR and higher compared to our forwards.
So what is u/20s being used for development ? backs wise we always have that natural ability,but forwards a worry.
I was just now thinking about this and wondering about what we are seeing in Super Rugby. I wonder if some of the injuries we are seeing can be put down to the specific conditioning they received through the age grades. Names that spring to mind (mostly Crusaders because lets face it, the world revolves around them)- Grace, Lord, that kid from the Canes with the South African name, Holland, Gallagher, Blackadder, Bell. And that's just the forwards. I am sure there are others who have struggled with injury too.
I wonder if we have anyone in the know on the Fern who could shed some light on the subject?
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Very good point.
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One point victory, pretty poor really considering last years effort when we put 67 points on the Aussies. Always thought we had so much depth at juniour levels. Not a great start to Laidlaw's coaching career. Hopefully they can get it together for the Under 20s World Cup.
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Just finished watching the replay. I agree with others that our scrum is a big worry. The Aussies seem much bigger and stronger, but also just better scrummagers. I should add that it was mainly the starting Aussie frontrow that dominated; not so much their replacements.
Not sure yet about our locks, but Cahill should be a starter.
Backrow, while I rate Lakai highly, his decision-making isn't there yet. Not sure who our best 6 is, but
Cooper Flanders should start at openside; he's so much better than Sam Hainsworth-Fa’aofo. He's also deceptively quick; you can almost see that he started his school rugby in the backs.Best forward to me in this game was Cahill.
The backs went well, but it's clear that combinations haven't settled yet. Tangitau was the best back for me, closely followed by Godfrey who showed great skills in his passing and kicking. That kick for Tangitau's first try was pin-point precision. Also delivered the try assists for the other tries. I also liked Kemara and Hotham, who's about three levels or more better than his replacement. Not sure what our best midfield is.
All in all, glad we got the win, but it won't hide the problems we have in the pack, especially in the scrum. Not sure there are bigger, stronger frontrowers available in this age group. Of the school leavers that aren't in the squad I can only think of Senio Sanele (Wellington / ex-St Pat's Silverstream) and Gus Brown (Canterbury - ex-Napier Boys), but not sure they'd make a big difference as they're still very young.
Not all squad members have played in these two tests; not sure whether they're injured or why else they were not playing. Whether it will make much difference if they're playing? Who knows.
Not super optimistic for the WR U20 Championship, but they may surprise us. There are plenty of great players in the squad who can do the job if ... there aren't too many scrums. Our opponents' coaches for the JWC will no doubt be aware of our problems at setpiece, so they'll go for it at every occasion. It's up to our players to try avoiding it as much as possible. I'm not too worried about Wales and Japan, but France are likely to steamroll us.
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Interesting comments from Bates on Breakdown tonight about the two Blues props in the NZ U20s. One (Niuafe) is an ex-RL player with about 18 months experience as a prop, and the other (Ake) was a schoolboy loose forward. It does highlight the problems for front rowers transitioning from 1st XV to U20s.
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@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2:
@Chris said in NZ U20 v Junior Wallabies 2:
There some real average forwards in that NZ u/20 squad.
Bad selections or shit coaching ? and all coaching I mean the levels under the u/20s as well.Wasn't there a discussion about this a few years ago? I think someone suggested there is a belief in NZ to work on general play in the age grades rather than developing the strength based disciplines. The theory being strength will come later.
Hard to see how that would work in practice though.
If all the other props were working on their general play, there would be a major competitive advantage to any guy who decided he was going off to the gym to do extra work on his strength.
