-
Kind of ran down the rabbit hole of theplatform.kiwi (not sure how I discovered it , I think on sports twitter and Martin Devlin, who I enjoy, but dont always agree with), and ended up listening to their morning show during this morning's constitutional along the beach ...
... ended up listening to Sean Plunket (talk about a right wing rabbit hole ... at least I can see it), and he talked to woman after women who were organisers, attendees, prospective speakers. All incredibly articulate, all fearful as a result of the violence . All convinced that if KJK had fallen they held grave fears for her safety.
Quite eye/ear opening.
Problem as I see it is the older NZers still trust what they read in the Herald, hear on ZB or see on TV One as being factual.
Not sure facts are getting anywhere near the headlines at the moment.
-
-
@booboo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Kind of ran down the rabbit hole of theplatform.kiwi (not sure how I discovered it , I think on sports twitter and Martin Devlin, who I enjoy, but dont always agree with), and ended up listening to their morning show during this morning's constitutional along the beach ...
... ended up listening to Sean Plunket (talk about a right wing rabbit hole ... at least I can see it), and he talked to woman after women who were organisers, attendees, prospective speakers. All incredibly articulate, all fearful as a result of the violence . All convinced that if KJK had fallen they held grave fears for her safety.
Quite eye/ear opening.
Problem as I see it is the older NZers still trust what they read in the Herald, hear on ZB or see on TV One as being factual.
Not sure facts are getting anywhere near the headlines at the moment.
Well that’s the problem, having such a farcically one sided media is driving people towards believing their crazy uncle who rants on Facebook about how Klaus Schwab wants us all to eat bugs.
There’s an astonishing lack of diversity of opinion here, of the mainstream outlets the only journalist I saw calling out how appalling the behaviour was in the weekend was Rachel Smalley. The platform has a pretty tiny audience compared to Stuff, the Herald , Newshub tvnz and Rnz who have all been basically avoiding talking about the violence and claiming PP is a far right white supremacist while praising the thugs.
For the past couple of months we’ve been treated to the media and clowns like Sam Neill telling us how this country’s misogynistic culture drove Ardern out of office despite her denying that’s actually the case and then when women are assaulted by a mob of angry men the thugs get nothing but praise.
I mean ffs , what kind of reporting is this?
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
I wonder how much of this is minority parties going to the extreme to get publicity or justify their existence?
Putting gender issues aside, it's simply insane to state a biological man can give birth and those people who say this is incorrect or point out the reality of self-ID (male rapists in women's prisons) are "spreading hate" - yet they do.
I just can't get into these peoples heads.
The men can have babies mp is a labour mp, she’s part of the government not from one of the minor lunatic parties .
-
@No-Quarter said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
This just seems to insane to be true. How far had NZ fallen since Adern took power? This is the kind of thing that makes me want to leave.
Newshub have set the news clip where they deceptively edited it to claim PP doing up her zip was flashing a white supremacist symbol to private . Here’s hoping PP has set some lawyers onto them . Things can’t be going very well financially for Newshub , if you click on articles you get sent to a shitty Google ad first like you do on a cheap blog.
Also no real surprises they support men beating women if this is how they behave themselves
-
I'm doing a Siam here. Posting long videos discussing conspiracies ...
Again GB news is not main stream and known for their inclination towards the conservative (not necessarily the political party), but Andrew Doyle sums this up well I think. Video is 10mins long, but the "white supremacy" stuff is early on.
-
Just following on from @MajorRage post in the NZ Politics thread and trying to make sense of this stuff.....
-
It's the civil rights fight of this generational group - just like gay rights, apartheid etc. Previous battles won - freedom of speech, equality under the law. women's rights - are likely seen as old-hat and less important to respect.
-
There's a belief that as the battle on women's right has largely been won, sex doesn't actually matter - people should be able to choose
-
Science and facts are less important than feelings as he former are a bit dry, boring - and unemotional. We can get a bigger emotional hit by interacting emotionally online with like-minded people. And an even bigger hit when we meet up to protest in real-life.
-
And just as people can't get directly physically hurt online, this poss. translates into thinking intimidation and paint-throwing/damage to property is OK
-
In the past, people's values and moral were rooted in day-day experiences which earlier generation took online when social media appeared. Are later generations increasingly taking their online morals and values into real-life? Does this explain the violence and groupthink?
-
Media, business & politicians are targeting this group or generation (which cuts across traditional political groupings) for click-revenue, marketing opportunities and votes. (Follow the money)
-
Most of these beliefs - like many who espouse them - are nonsensical and collapse when facing reality - as we've seen in other countries, sports and institutions when the harms they cause become really apparent.
-
-
@Victor-Meldrew I'd add the connection of needing something to believe in. The vast majority of humans need a belief system in their lives. The rise in wokeness coincides with the lesser belief in religion. The similarities between religion and wokeness are quite scary.
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Victor-Meldrew I'd add the connection of needing something to believe in. The vast majority of humans need a belief system in their lives. The rise in wokeness coincides with the lesser belief in religion. The similarities between religion and wokeness are quite scary.
Judeo-Christian societal values post the Reformation have led to a huge increase in living standards, and arguably civilisation.
Now that these are deeply unfashionable one has to wonder what will replace them.
The road to perdition is paved with wokeness?
-
One thing I was thinking about when it comes to people making these grandiose statements in support of the trans movement, while neglecting to talk about the really serious issues in society (e.g. poverty, domestic violence, increasing crime rates etc) is it gives them a great way of signaling how much more virtuous they are than everybody else. Everybody knows things like people living in poverty is a bad thing, so stating that for the world to see doesn't make them more virtuous than anyone else. So they find more and more silly things to prove it - e.g. "trans women are women!! see, you didn't think about that did you? Not as virtuous as I am are you? do better bigot!". Which leads us to focusing on more and more silly things rather than talking about actually trying to improve the lives of people that are doing it toughest.
-
I think the problem is that there doesn’t seem to be any patience for the ‘movement’ to be discussed and integrated alongside other societal values. There are no places for those with more traditional values to express a fair view.
Personally, for example, I’m relatively happy for trans people to use female toilets - they are generally single use cubicles and I’m happy for those who want to live as women doing so. There are laws that can be used if there is intimidation or violence carried out by trans people against females.
On the other hand though, trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons. Equally, neither competing in female sports events. If there is sufficient numbers, let’s have trans sports classes and events (and wings in prisons). I’d be happy to celebrate the achievements of a trans person if they were competing against people in a similar boat (e.g., went through puberty, on hormone treatment).
The stuff about kids and being encouraged to transition is mad and should be discussed as such.
However, there aren’t many places where we can have real discussion about it without huge consequences. I wouldn’t dream of talking about it at work - I’d likely be putting my career in jeopardy.
-
Well I think it's quite easy for a guy to say "Well as a man I don't have a problem with men being in woman's bathrooms, what's the big deal??".
The counter there is that even in this modern, enlightened age a huge number of woman suffered from some form of sexual abuse in their lifetime.
So for them to be forced in bathrooms and changing rooms (where you are more vulnerable than normal) to share them with trans-woman who obviously still have all their male bits and physique - well yeah, I could see how that would be disturbing and uncomfortable.
Also on another note is it considered transphobic to snigger at the failed attempts of a trans-man to use the urinal??
-
-
When you see something like like, you wonder how there is any argument about it.
The thing about this whole issue now is that there is so much “factual” stuff out there, from both sides of the argument that just does not bear any scrutiny and there is seemingly no accountability for any of this. No wonder a serious and balanced discussion appears unobtainable.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general