Black Caps v England
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I think a case could be reasonably made for swapping Bracewell for Sodhi, but after a win like that I think the question marks about the balance of the side, or Young & Nicholls all have to be set aside for another game.
And maybe even Bracewell gets the mental boost of the win, and the now relatively safe kick up the backside of that poor running, given they got away with it on the scoresheet. As much as a few of us were (rightly!) furious about that running, I suspect he's still more gutted about it than anyone...
If I was in the hot seat I suspect I'd think long and hard and eventually pick Sodhi at 8, but I don't think that is the style of Stead and Southee.
Joys of one run or one point in sport. Had it been a one wicket loss...! I've occasionally wondered how NZ rugby history would have gone had 2011 finished up 7 - 8 at Eden Park instead.
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It seemed a golden chance to try some younger players such as Ravindra or Phillips batting (and part-time spinners), seam bowling allrounders like Nathan Smith (really talented) and Henry Shipley (far better allround cricketers than Bracewell, and far better bowlers than Kuggeleijn and Tickner) or pick a proper spinner like Sodhi who actually averages more with the bat than Bracewell does anyway.
Everyone in our team is over 30 and we'll probably have mass retirements in about 3 years. Next summer we have South Africa and Australia coming for tests (part of the next WTC). It would be far better for young players to debut against SL now than against the Saffa and Aussie quicks.
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the rest of the team barely matters
just like our recent golden period, this was built on a Kane century, great runs from the keeper, and Wags cleaning up the middle order. The other 8 blokes are place holders
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@LABCAT said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
Phillips is not a number 4 so can't replace Young.
Phillips batted 4 for Otago vs Wellington which was on at the same time as the test and scored 61 off 67 in the 1st innings and 47 off 28 in the second. Sounds like our version of Harry Brook to me.
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@four-more-years said in Black Caps v England:
It seemed a golden chance to try some younger players such as Ravindra or Phillips batting (and part-time spinners), seam bowling allrounders like Nathan Smith (really talented) and Henry Shipley (far better allround cricketers than Bracewell, and far better bowlers than Kuggeleijn and Tickner) or pick a proper spinner like Sodhi who actually averages more with the bat than Bracewell does anyway.
Everyone in our team is over 30 and we'll probably have mass retirements in about 3 years. Next summer we have South Africa and Australia coming for tests (part of the next WTC). It would be far better for young players to debut against SL now than against the Saffa and Aussie quicks.
that has to be balanced by a big win over England,I watched a lot of the SS apart from Phillips and maybe Ravindra who to me are borderline Test players.
I don't see the talent to make changes just to give players a test match.
Smith and Shipley for me are a long way away from test standard,The depth of test players in NZ is poor,For me I am a earn your test spot person, not try someone who is a big gamble unless the player is dominating domestic cricket like Conway did.
Dropping players after that win maybe a good way for the coach to lose the dressing room, the team will be very tight and unified after that win. -
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
The depth of test players in NZ is poor
It is one of the biggest challenges facing the Caps, challenging for the next WTC could go well, or become another mid 90's disaster as retirements loom. It would be nice to have the equivalent of a Brad Hodge or a Darren Lehmann running around in Plunket Shield, but...
For spin bowling there are at least a few relatively viable alternatives in Bracewell/Sodhi/Patel, and to an extent Ravindra. For the pace bowling, the well looks pretty dry for Test quality options. (And D. Bracewell seems to time his injuries badly...)
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps v England:
It was a very average Aussie batting order.
Though definitely better than what they had a couple of years earlier when WSC was on - and better than what came after when we beat them in 1985/86.
I doubt NZ will change the playing XI unless they decide Christchurch doesn't warrant playing a spinner, in which case maybe Tickner comes back for Bracewell.
Assuming Chris is correct about Young and his off stump (I can't watch to form an opinion), then I'd bring Phillips in to bat 6 and maybe push Mitch Jr. to 4.
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Put it this way:
Last season 2021/22 Nathan Smith took 31 Plunket Shield wickets at 18.41. His overall stats aren't amazing (bowling av 30.7, batting av 27.7), but that's because he debuted for Otago at 17/18.
Last season Scott Kuggeleijn took 4 at 50.50
Shipley just gives a bit of variety - big guy who swings it and bats a bit (basically a poor man's Jamieson).
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
The depth of test players in NZ is poor
It is one of the biggest challenges facing the Caps, challenging for the next WTC could go well, or become another mid 90's disaster as retirements loom. It would be nice to have the equivalent of a Brad Hodge or a Darren Lehmann running around in Plunket Shield, but...
For spin bowling there are at least a few relatively viable alternatives in Bracewell/Sodhi/Patel, and to an extent Ravindra. For the pace bowling, the well looks pretty dry for Test quality options. (And D. Bracewell seems to time his injuries badly...)
The way NZ have/are selecting players maybe the way to go when these players retire.
Select the next tier of experienced players who have time at the crease behind them.
Hope those one in a generation young players turn up to add to the mix.
Hoping to get the blend of experience and up and coming talent right.
Conway was selected later in his career (of course qualification was the issue).But he is a better player when selected at 28 than when he was 23 he admits that himself.
Young has had to wait etc.
You need to have a base of runs and time at the crease and really understand your game and limitations to be successful at test Cricket it really does test out your technique and metal strength test Cricket. -
Anyway, the team isn't changing in a hurry. We have 2 tests in Bangladesh later in the year which will be interesting.
Another good option is getting Dean Foxcroft in there once he qualifies (Saffa who got stuck outside NZ bcos of covid which stopped his qualifying time - ICC are reviewing his case). He's genuinely good.
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@four-more-years said in Black Caps v England:
Anyway, the team isn't changing in a hurry. We have 2 tests in Bangladesh later in the year which will be interesting.
Another good option is getting Dean Foxcroft in there once he qualifies (Saffa who got stuck outside NZ bcos of covid which stopped his qualifying time - ICC are reviewing his case). He's genuinely good.
Yeah he seems to be very consistent does Foxcroft, White ball player maybe.
Maybe that is the key more Saffas.
Chad Bowes although 30 looks like he is tough enough to succeed another SA. -
Another option is picking Ravindra and moving the great man to 4. Give him more protection from the new ball. I remember Ponting moved to 4 later in his career, and so did Lara. Kallis moved to 4 when Amla was picked likewise Viv moved to 5 when Richie Richardson came along.
Ravindra
Latham
Conway
Williamsonlooks pretty good
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NZ I think have selected smart over the last few years picking the experienced players who had the tools to perform in test cricket.
It is a parallel to what Australia was doing a few years back which saw players like Hussey at 28 come in and dominant test cricket.The Reverse when Greg Chappell took over the High performance he put in a pick no new players in to State Cricket sides unless they were under 25 rule.
Every dominant player in club Cricket were 27 to 32 they were the best players by some distance.
As soon as that rule came in players 28 and Over started retiring leaving club Cricket as a nursery of players who were not good enough to play state cricket weakening the structure.
I had a player who dominated Club Cricket for 3 years in row scoring 1500 runs 3 years in a row, dominating the Qld Bulls bowlers when they played,The Qld bowlers always said he was a hard man to bowl to and would do very well at state level,They would not pick him and the under 25 rule was trotted out every year.
He retired at his peak at 31. -
Tbh, My only real bugbear currently (in the 11 is Nicholls), with the squad is Kuggs.
I see that as a dead-end selection talent-wise, running in displaying the seam position like a baboon's ass, not worth the fallout PR-wise.
That is the position that needs the most attention. Depth in the old-ball bowling. Where options are to include a proper spinner or give Shipley a punt, although I'd rather he play plunket than be 13th man for a test, so ....
N Smith I'd like them to select if Matt Henry is out, but only in that new-ball role.
Medium term the make-up requires a more root and branch call, the balance going forward now that Wagner, Jamieson, CdG aren't it. Not something I think Stead or Larsen are capable of grasping. It effects about 6 squad members and 4 positions in the 11 potentially - depending on the balance going forward using the resources available. So, it's a big task.
Hearing rumours of an NZ A series at the end of the season. I think that will 'ease the urgency' of making the required changes.
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@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@four-more-years said in Black Caps v England:
Anyway, the team isn't changing in a hurry. We have 2 tests in Bangladesh later in the year which will be interesting.
Another good option is getting Dean Foxcroft in there once he qualifies (Saffa who got stuck outside NZ bcos of covid which stopped his qualifying time - ICC are reviewing his case). He's genuinely good.
Yeah he seems to be very consistent does Foxcroft, White ball player maybe.
Maybe that is the key more Saffas.
Chad Bowes although 30 looks like he is tough enough to succeed another SA.Foxcroft had a bit of a mind block in four day cricket. Looks like he has busted it with a recent hundred. His eleibility is being worked on. If NZ Cricket can get COVID dispensation, he should be eligible in August. Otherwise it is 2026. I still think G Phillips is worth a go in the middle order, despite not getting big runs recently. I think Nathan Smith as a no8 and a change bowler. Think he has the sort of personality to bowl tough overs. Adi Ashok looks like one for the future in the spinning spot. I reckon stuff it, let Ravindra sit in the opening spot. Grow into it. Blundell needs to bat at six. One thing is for certain we have a number of players who aren't up to it and this victory shouldn't mask it.
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OTAGO vs WELL Cricket Scorecard, 15th match at Dunedin, February 25 - 28, 2023
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Otago vs Wellington 15th match, cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2022/23 dated February 25 - 28, 2023.
Bright debut for Muhammad Abbas who has big raps on him.
Should be useful in two or three years.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
OTAGO vs WELL Cricket Scorecard, 15th match at Dunedin, February 25 - 28, 2023
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Otago vs Wellington 15th match, cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2022/23 dated February 25 - 28, 2023.
Bright debut for Muhammad Abbas who has big raps on him.
Should be useful in two or three years.
Yes I know his Dad Azhar I Have done some coaching with him in Auckland back in 2011/12.Muhammad was a we pup following dad around back then he must have been 7 or 8.
Good pedigree he will be an International going forward he showed natural talent back then at that young age. -
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
OTAGO vs WELL Cricket Scorecard, 15th match at Dunedin, February 25 - 28, 2023
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Otago vs Wellington 15th match, cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2022/23 dated February 25 - 28, 2023.
Bright debut for Muhammad Abbas who has big raps on him.
Should be useful in two or three years.
Yes I know his Dad Azhar I Have done some coaching with him in Auckland back in 2011/12.Muhammad was a we pup following dad around back then he must have been 7 or 8.
Good pedigree he will be an International going forward he showed natural talent back then at that young age.I was about to ask you if you have seen this fella play recently. Seems to be talked up as one of the better young players going around. Hopefully he is committed to NZ!
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
OTAGO vs WELL Cricket Scorecard, 15th match at Dunedin, February 25 - 28, 2023
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Otago vs Wellington 15th match, cricket scorecard, Plunket Shield 2022/23 dated February 25 - 28, 2023.
Bright debut for Muhammad Abbas who has big raps on him.
Should be useful in two or three years.
Yes I know his Dad Azhar I Have done some coaching with him in Auckland back in 2011/12.Muhammad was a we pup following dad around back then he must have been 7 or 8.
Good pedigree he will be an International going forward he showed natural talent back then at that young age.I was about to ask you if you have seen this fella play recently. Seems to be talked up as one of the better young players going around. Hopefully he is committed to NZ!
He will be the family is fully entrenched in NZ
He is a talented one who could burst into international Cricket at a young age.
