Super Rugby Aupiki 2023
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@mikedogz said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
Rugby: Stale Super Rugby Aupiki risks player drain overseas in pursuit of full-time gigs | Newshub
The majority of players are still working part-time to pay the bills.
I saw those interviews and story on the news last night.
Firstly, good on those that spoke up. They did so honestly and openly and aren't letting NZR dictate the narrative here.
It is a big pity that no comment was obtained from NZR. It would have been the usual platitudes but at least they should have been called to answer to the public as to why they aren't moving as fast as they need to.I previously acknowledged the issues that the women's game has in moving from amateur to semi pro/pro, especially in finding a balance due to there not being enough to sustain long periods away from jobs/family but potentially too much to not be unviable and unattractive.
It appears that the new breed of players coming through are looking for more and would be happy to sort out the rest of the year themselves. They will adjust their commitments around rugby. These players are the future and we can't lose them to Japan and the UK
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@Crucial On the page "Legend of Marty Banks" were a lot more comments than appear in that story. For example, from a former NZ7s development player, who was expected to turn up at every training without getting paid. She had a really tough time when she got injurend and wasn't offered a NZ 7s contract. She eventually left for Japan and had earned enough playing professional sevens after 3 years to buy a home in NZ, something she could have never afforded if she had stayed in NZ.
Also from another player who sometimes arrived at training late due having to juggle several jobs to survive and was treated like she was lazy. She was rewarded with non-selection.
Unfortunately, all these comments were in the instagram "stories", so they have disappeared.
Someone wrote in the comments on FB (I haven't checked whether it is true) is that Fijiana Drua has lost their entire backline to earn more $$. I think most went to Aussie Super-W teams; and also to league, like NZ players. There is a lot more money in Super-W and NRLW.
There's a whole contigent of NZ players - including FPC players - at the North Sydney Bears and Canterbury Bulldogs. This is going to hurt the FPC. -
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
I am assuming that the player who turned down contracts with two teams does not have a NZR contract, as that would given them some financial stability.
There are quite a few dual code players around that this could apply to.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Crucial On the page "Legend of Marty Banks" were a lot more comments than appear in that story. For example, from a former NZ7s development player, who was expected to turn up at every training without getting paid. She had a really tough time when she got injurend and wasn't offered a NZ 7s contract. She eventually left for Japan and had earned enough playing professional sevens after 3 years to buy a home in NZ, something she could have never afforded if she had stayed in NZ.
Also from another player who sometimes arrived at training late due having to juggle several jobs to survive and was treated like she was lazy. She was rewarded with non-selection.
Unfortunately, all these comments were in the instagram "stories", so they have disappeared.
Someone wrote in the comments on FB (I haven't checked whether it is true) is that Fijiana Drua has lost their entire backline to earn more $$. I think most went to Aussie Super-W teams; and also to league, like NZ players. There is a lot more money in Super-W and NRLW.
There's a whole contigent of NZ players - including FPC players - at the North Sydney Bears and Canterbury Bulldogs. This is going to hurt the FPC.I take some of these individual stories with a pinch of salt as there are always disgruntled players that feel that they don't get the same chances as others.
What is clear though is that the chances for these players to get disgruntled are increased when the opportunities are low.
A common thing in the 7s in both genders has been that players that are interested get told that if they are serious they should move to BOP and join in to see where it goes. Others do this off their own back. The reality is that unless you have backed this up with an academy selection you are on a hiding to nothing.
The pool of players at the 'top' is also small enough that favourites or known players are carried around by coaches.
One of the reasons Wayne Smith did well is that he came in completely clean and judged players solely on ability. -
@Crucial Olive is now listed in the Chiefs Manawa squad profiles (ignore the details).
https://www.chiefs.co.nz/chiefs-squad-player/olive-watherston
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On the topic of whether the effort is really being made for this comp by all...we have discussed the decision by Matatu to hold their games in a backwater ground but Hurricanes with the season opener take the game to Levin on a shitty pitch surrounded by an old running track. If anything will scream 'average' at punters it will be that.
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@Crucial The last time I was at Levin Domain (pre-covid), it wasn't a shitty pitch at all. If there's a track around it, I didn't notice it. It's small, but the field was good then. Edit: now I'm thinking of it, you could indeed walk around the field, but that just meant that you could watch from anywhere around the field, which was good for a preseason game.
If anything, picking these little ground means that they have low expectations for crowd turnout. I think they should aim higher. Do some proper promotion. On the other hand, a packed small ground probably creates a better atmosphere than a half-full (or less) bigger stadium.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Crucial The last time I was at Levin Domain (pre-covid), it wasn't a shitty pitch at all. If there's a track around it, I didn't notice it. It's small, but the field was good then. Edit: now I'm thinking of it, you could indeed walk around the field, but that just meant that you could watch from anywhere around the field, which was good for a preseason game.
If anything, picking these little ground means that they have low expectations for crowd turnout. I think they should aim higher. Do some proper promotion. On the other hand, a packed small ground probably creates a better atmosphere than a half-full (or less) bigger stadium.
Looking into it further I see that there is the mens pre-season game there the wee before. Seems to be a lot of comment about 'partnering' with Horowhenua Council. My guess is that they have done a deal for the council to wear the game staging costs around traffic management etc and to make it worth their while have given them consecutive weekends. Ticks a 'taking the game to the regions' box as well.
I'm being grumpy and don't have a problem with taking games to other towns just that this is a poor look for the comp IMO by having the opening match at a club ground. Mind you the very first Super Game was at Palmy.....
Also looks like Caketin isn't open for sports games until beginning of March judging by their events calendar.
Just thought that maybe somewhere like McLean Park or even Porirua would have been more appropriate. -
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@Bovidae said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
Levin Domain is the home ground for H-K so must be of a reasonable standard (playing surface, etc).
As I said. My OP was being a bit grumpy and the pitch comment was more that it isn’t a stadia type standard befitting the supposed level of comp.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Crucial The last time I was at Levin Domain (pre-covid), it wasn't a shitty pitch at all. If there's a track around it, I didn't notice it. It's small, but the field was good then. Edit: now I'm thinking of it, you could indeed walk around the field, but that just meant that you could watch from anywhere around the field, which was good for a preseason game.
If anything, picking these little ground means that they have low expectations for crowd turnout. I think they should aim higher. Do some proper promotion. On the other hand, a packed small ground probably creates a better atmosphere than a half-full (or less) bigger stadium.
Looking into it further I see that there is the mens pre-season game there the wee before. Seems to be a lot of comment about 'partnering' with Horowhenua Council. My guess is that they have done a deal for the council to wear the game staging costs around traffic management etc and to make it worth their while have given them consecutive weekends. Ticks a 'taking the game to the regions' box as well.
I'm being grumpy and don't have a problem with taking games to other towns just that this is a poor look for the comp IMO by having the opening match at a club ground. Mind you the very first Super Game was at Palmy.....
Also looks like Caketin isn't open for sports games until beginning of March judging by their events calendar.
Just thought that maybe somewhere like McLean Park or even Porirua would have been more appropriate.Haha Crucial, you just saved your bacon after first post. I orinally a Levin fells, and rubbishing the Domain etc is asking for trouble!!!! Lol
But on holding opening game there, I think it makes sense, you don't want any Aupiki games at big stadiums, as for all the feel good after the WC last year, they not going to fill out any decent size park, better to build into it.
And going down for the Canes/Crusaders preseason on Friday! -
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Bovidae Yep, the field is fine.
One possible reason for Levin getting the game may also be that - I think - the Horo-Kap union has a small share in the Hurricanes, unlike Manawatū and Hawke's Bay, and the other Heartland unions.
Bang on Star was going to say that, also why they get preseason game.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
I think it makes sense, you don't want any Aupiki games at big stadiums, as for all the feel good after the WC last year, they not going to fill out any decent size park, better to build into it.
While I understand where this line of thinking comes from I disagree with it.
Originally the Women's RWC was set to be played at Waitakere for this same logic.
I agree that stadia aren't going to be filled (they aren't for the men's comp (and we all know how awful the Caketin looks with even 10k in it)
I subscribe to the 'Think Big but be innovative' theory myself. One of the reasons WRWC was such a success was that a lot of family friendly organisation was put in place which attracted a 'new' audience.
I think there is huge scope to market this comp differently to the men's game and playing at local grounds sends a devaluing message. -
@Crucial While I understand your point, I also think it's a good way to build the women's game into the community.
Also big stadiums cost an awful lot more to hire too, and while I loved the crowds at WRWC last year, rugby can't afford to have too many games where you only charge a pittance to get into, unless they take them to 'local' grounds. Don't forget you could go to WRWC for $10-$50 (and heaps of free ones), and I would imagine no super franshises would have the spare coin to operate like that. They are companies with shareholders etc. The unfortunate reality is Super Aupiki needs to grow, and I suspect in a couple of years when perhaps there Aussie teams are involved we see double headers with men's team, and are best chance for the game to go to stadiums. Already as we know the women's game is really in it's infancy with very few well known names involved (as yet) and even the best know ones are not playing in Super Aupiki as they have gone back to 7s!
Be nice if we did see good crowds paying $20-$60 a game for Super Aupiki, but I suspect the games not at that point--yet! -
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Crucial While I understand your point, I also think it's a good way to build the women's game into the community.
Also big stadiums cost an awful lot more to hire too, and while I loved the crowds at WRWC last year, rugby can't afford to have too many games where you only charge a pittance to get into, unless they take them to 'local' grounds. Don't forget you could go to WRWC for $10-$50 (and heaps of free ones), and I would imagine no super franshises would have the spare coin to operate like that. They are companies with shareholders etc. The unfortunate reality is Super Aupiki needs to grow, and I suspect in a couple of years when perhaps there Aussie teams are involved we see double headers with men's team, and are best chance for the game to go to stadiums. Already as we know the women's game is really in it's infancy with very few well known names involved (as yet) and even the best know ones are not playing in Super Aupiki as they have gone back to 7s!
Be nice if we did see good crowds paying $20-$60 a game for Super Aupiki, but I suspect the games not at that point--yet!The double headers are already scheduled this year.
It’s a tricky transition though. At what point do you stop declaring the women’s game as “lesser” (the curtain raiser) and develop it as a separate product?
I have heard quite a few women that want to go to a women’s rugby game that have become very bored with the men’s game and not interested.
The problem is that you are asking those supporters to pay for a product they don’t want.
Hopefully this year’s stadia games can create a good atmosphere.
It’s pretty arrogant of the franchises to allow to lose money on the men’s game but not the women’s.
I do agree that NZR should throw some support and resources into this to help get it going. -
@Crucial why have the franchises lost money on the men's game? How are any of them surviving? Wouldn't hey be broke if they were operating as a losing operation?
For instance the Hurricanes lost money for 2 years over covid, but were profitable up until then, how did they make money if they were losing money from men's game, it was their only income?
Mate I would love women's game to be popular enough, and crowds be prepared to pay enough to be able to play in big stadiums, but we not there yet. We can't suddenly say everything is a rosey after 1 world cup hosted by us, that I haven't seen anywhere was a cash bonanza.
I love the idea of the game growing organically , and it will if the product is good enough. -
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby Aupiki 2023:
@Crucial why have the franchises lost money on the men's game? How are any of them surviving? Wouldn't hey be broke if they were operating as a losing operation?
For instance the Hurricanes lost money for 2 years over covid, but were profitable up until then, how did they make money if they were losing money from men's game, it was their only income?
Mate I would love women's game to be popular enough, and crowds be prepared to pay enough to be able to play in big stadiums, but we not there yet. We can't suddenly say everything is a rosey after 1 world cup hosted by us, that I haven't seen anywhere was a cash bonanza.
I love the idea of the game growing organically , and it will if the product is good enough.Match Revenue is a very small part of the income. WRFU Annual Report showed cash Match Revenue for 2021 as $208k from total cash revenue of $4.7M. I can't believe that match day turns a profit in itself. NZR income plus sponsorship is the source that helps balance the books.
Sky are paying NZR for Aupiki. NZR distribute that among the franchises. Would be very interesting to see if a direct gross income/expenditure could be calculated. NZR pay the players and coaches. It would be quite possible that the women's game in effect subsidises the mens (if you want to look at it that way). -
@Dan54 BTW none of this profit/loss stuff is really where I am coming from.
My comment is just as much directed at NZR as it is any franchise.
I just think that the launch game of the top women's comp in the country deserves better than Levin Domain. Whether that is achieved though better scheduling (eg swap around with the match at FBS) or supporting the franchise then it would be a better look.
