Highlanders 2023
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@taniwharugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@SouthernMann problem would appear to start earlier though.
A talented teenage inside back from Kerikeri has just signed with Canterbury and the Crusaders academy, knocking back offers from both Northland and the Blues academy (played in blues age group this year)...when you look at career paths over the past 15+ years, it is a no brainer, for the kid and if I was his parent, I'd guide him that way too.
I know of another 10 from Whangarei (via St Kents) also in the Canterbury age group system.
These guys add to the Inside backs likely to come from within Canterbury too, and you have a blockage, possibly hindering if they opted to go elsewhere, but you can't force the.
There is no easy answer though, culture is a part, successful pathways is another.
Toby Bell ??
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in Highlanders 2023:
@cgrant Mcclea as Injury cover possibly?although they'll probably look for a hb with more first class experience
Hastie will be the likely injury cover, as he is the halfback signed to replace Smith in 2024 and should be clear of injury by then. Faleafaga's job over the next nine months is to have a top quality club season and to get regular game time for Otago. He hasn't even got on the paddock for them yet. The Otago/Highlanders swt up also needs to work out how it wants to work around both him and Millar. The question for the franchise is, how does it position itself as a opportunity rich destination to get quality players in. Identify where its gaps are in two to three years time and go to market looking to fill those gaps. It has eight years + of de Groot as a starting prop, but who backs him up in the future. It has identified Jack Taylor and Henry Bell as its long-term hookers, but who fills out that group. Locks are developing nicely. Loosies with the likes of Withy, Michaels, Haig, Broughton, Tu'u have time on their side. The backs are the real problem. Otago/Highlanders had an opportunity to get Hotham, they kept their blinkers on and went with Arscott and Hastie. Modern Super Rugby isn't going to throw up diamonds like it did a decade ago. We need to admit this and focus on strong planning. Look at the squad with a 2025 + lens and identify the holes start planning to plug them with kids still in school or just out. The frustration is we see very few talented players leak out of other franchises, yet the Highlanders miss out on generational players like George Bell. A quality programme wouldn't let that happen.
Keeping Hotham was never a realistic option IMO. Guy in theory becomes the Crusaders starting halfback by 2024 - never a possibility at the Landers with Fakatava ahead... and I'm going to throw it out there that he isn't quite as good as some say. Don't forget Hastie also was in the U20s a year ago. Arscott the weakest of the four, but he is a local guy to be your number three which I don't mind.
As for the new halfback this year, Derms has said experience... I wouldn't mind betting on Richard Judd, who is a more than solid option - Hastie hasn't even played a first class game, so to go in with him and Arscott as backups would be insane.
And on Bell, the Highlanders and Otago really tried to get him, but it was one of those situations that they couldn't really do anything about. The Crusaders track record of producing players, as well as genuine desires to go to Lincoln Uni meant we missed out...
And I do think at times we conveniently forget about the players we have poached (albeit in smaller quantities). Hotham (Waikato), Holland (Canterbury), Nareki, Koroi (Manawatu), Ma'u, J Ioane, Faleafaga, Asi (Auckland).
The Highlanders have finally got their act together with this proper academy, it will just take time for these players to come through - they are aware of the issues. We will always have less resources, so have a lower margin of error in terms of who we import, but if you get one star prospect every two years from out of town, that gives you a good core to work with to be competitive.
By 2025, I expect that the Highlanders will definitely have starting All Blacks in de Groot, Holland, Fakatava, and depending how they develop a selection of, Ma'u, Parkinson, Withy, Haig, Mikaele-Tu'u, Faleafaga, Millar and Umaga-Jensen will be in and around it.
That will be a good core of a side, I guess it shows a gaping hole at hooker (Which I'm confident Jack Taylor or Henry Bell won't solve in terms of being starters by that stage) and in the outside backs.
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@friedrugby who don't you think is quite as good as some say, Hotham or Fakatava?
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@Crazy-Horse I think he is referring to Hotham.
@Chris yeah Toby Bell, the other one that came down via St Kents is Jade Stewart
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@taniwharugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Crazy-Horse I think he is referring to Hotham.
@Chris yeah Toby Bell, the other one that came down via St Kents is Jade Stewart
Way too early to tell I would have thought. But I do think Hotham has to be a smart error free player who masters the basics. I didn't see any major 'weapons' in his game to compensate ie bullet pass or lightening quick on his feet
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@Crazy-Horse said in Highlanders 2023:
@taniwharugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Crazy-Horse I think he is referring to Hotham.
@Chris yeah Toby Bell, the other one that came down via St Kents is Jade Stewart
Way too early to tell I would have thought. But I do think Hotham has to be a smart error free player who masters the basics. I didn't see any major 'weapons' in his game to compensate ie bullet pass or lightening quick on his feet
I rate Hotham, good kicker and great turn off pace good runner and the Crusaders have missed that.
Great pass defends well I think Hotham is the complete package. -
@taniwharugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Crazy-Horse I think he is referring to Hotham.
@Chris yeah Toby Bell, the other one that came down via St Kents is Jade Stewart
Yeah Stewart is in the Academy system rated well so I understand.
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in Highlanders 2023:
@cgrant Mcclea as Injury cover possibly?although they'll probably look for a hb with more first class experience
Hastie will be the likely injury cover, as he is the halfback signed to replace Smith in 2024 and should be clear of injury by then. Faleafaga's job over the next nine months is to have a top quality club season and to get regular game time for Otago. He hasn't even got on the paddock for them yet. The Otago/Highlanders swt up also needs to work out how it wants to work around both him and Millar. The question for the franchise is, how does it position itself as a opportunity rich destination to get quality players in. Identify where its gaps are in two to three years time and go to market looking to fill those gaps. It has eight years + of de Groot as a starting prop, but who backs him up in the future. It has identified Jack Taylor and Henry Bell as its long-term hookers, but who fills out that group. Locks are developing nicely. Loosies with the likes of Withy, Michaels, Haig, Broughton, Tu'u have time on their side. The backs are the real problem. Otago/Highlanders had an opportunity to get Hotham, they kept their blinkers on and went with Arscott and Hastie. Modern Super Rugby isn't going to throw up diamonds like it did a decade ago. We need to admit this and focus on strong planning. Look at the squad with a 2025 + lens and identify the holes start planning to plug them with kids still in school or just out. The frustration is we see very few talented players leak out of other franchises, yet the Highlanders miss out on generational players like George Bell. A quality programme wouldn't let that happen.
Keeping Hotham was never a realistic option IMO. Guy in theory becomes the Crusaders starting halfback by 2024 - never a possibility at the Landers with Fakatava ahead... and I'm going to throw it out there that he isn't quite as good as some say. Don't forget Hastie also was in the U20s a year ago. Arscott the weakest of the four, but he is a local guy to be your number three which I don't mind.
As for the new halfback this year, Derms has said experience... I wouldn't mind betting on Richard Judd, who is a more than solid option - Hastie hasn't even played a first class game, so to go in with him and Arscott as backups would be insane.
And on Bell, the Highlanders and Otago really tried to get him, but it was one of those situations that they couldn't really do anything about. The Crusaders track record of producing players, as well as genuine desires to go to Lincoln Uni meant we missed out...
And I do think at times we conveniently forget about the players we have poached (albeit in smaller quantities). Hotham (Waikato), Holland (Canterbury), Nareki, Koroi (Manawatu), Ma'u, J Ioane, Faleafaga, Asi (Auckland).
The Highlanders have finally got their act together with this proper academy, it will just take time for these players to come through - they are aware of the issues. We will always have less resources, so have a lower margin of error in terms of who we import, but if you get one star prospect every two years from out of town, that gives you a good core to work with to be competitive.
By 2025, I expect that the Highlanders will definitely have starting All Blacks in de Groot, Holland, Fakatava, and depending how they develop a selection of, Ma'u, Parkinson, Withy, Haig, Mikaele-Tu'u, Faleafaga, Millar and Umaga-Jensen will be in and around it.
That will be a good core of a side, I guess it shows a gaping hole at hooker (Which I'm confident Jack Taylor or Henry Bell won't solve in terms of being starters by that stage) and in the outside backs.
Hotham will be an AllBlack way before Arscott or Hastie get anywhere near a black jersey and a lot of that is because he is in the best environment for a young player to be, but also as he has the talent..
I think he will be a massive mover next year in that Crusaders environment. -
@Chris cheers for just rocking up and rubbing salt in the wound
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris cheers for just rocking up and rubbing salt in the wound
reality bites but you guys have some young guns locked in
With real ability, 2 years you will be a force,
Just some pain coming first
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@Chris said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris cheers for just rocking up and rubbing salt in the wound
reality bites but you guys have some young guns locked in
With real ability, 2 years you will be a force,
Just some pain coming firstreality isn't suddenly biting, read through the thread, think we all saw hotham going as a loss, even if we accepted it
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris cheers for just rocking up and rubbing salt in the wound
reality bites but you guys have some young guns locked in
With real ability, 2 years you will be a force,
Just some pain coming firstreality isn't suddenly biting, read through the thread, think we all saw hotham going as a loss, even if we accepted it
I didn't say it was biting now, just that it does.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders 2023:
Hotham probably only went to Otago as that is the path his older brother took.
He chose to come to Otago uni following his siblings. But, Otago decided against pursuing him. Siding with Hastie and Arscott. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/three-teams-calling-highly-rated-halfback
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@Chris said in Highlanders 2023:
@Crazy-Horse said in Highlanders 2023:
@taniwharugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Crazy-Horse I think he is referring to Hotham.
@Chris yeah Toby Bell, the other one that came down via St Kents is Jade Stewart
Way too early to tell I would have thought. But I do think Hotham has to be a smart error free player who masters the basics. I didn't see any major 'weapons' in his game to compensate ie bullet pass or lightening quick on his feet
I rate Hotham, good kicker and great turn off pace good runner and the Crusaders have missed that.
Great pass defends well I think Hotham is the complete package.Agree, I can't say I have spotted any weaknesses either, especially given his age and experience. Sounds like I am contradicting myself a bit from my previous post I suppose, but I know what I was trying say 😀
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All I will say is, out of Bell, Hotham, Holland, etc. I'd honestly rather have Holland, who we poached from Canterbury. Bell is also going to the top, no doubt, but I genuinely think Fabian Holland's potential is endless - I'm talking an all-time great.
He is an NBA style athlete, and there have been very few do what he has done at such a young age...
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
All I will say is, out of Bell, Hotham, Holland, etc. I'd honestly rather have Holland, who we poached from Canterbury. Bell is also going to the top, no doubt, but I genuinely think Fabian Holland's potential is endless - I'm talking an all-time great.
He is an NBA style athlete, and there have been very few do what he has done at such a young age...
Amazing talent at only 20. What impresses me is he doesn’t shirk the work and like Retallick has a big engine. I’m surprised Holland wasn’t in AB XV as well.
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@TheMojoman said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
All I will say is, out of Bell, Hotham, Holland, etc. I'd honestly rather have Holland, who we poached from Canterbury. Bell is also going to the top, no doubt, but I genuinely think Fabian Holland's potential is endless - I'm talking an all-time great.
He is an NBA style athlete, and there have been very few do what he has done at such a young age...
Amazing talent at only 20. What impresses me is he doesn’t shirk the work and like Retallick has a big engine. I’m surprised Holland wasn’t in AB XV as well.
Maybe Holland still having to wait a long time (I think until October 2025) to be eligible for the ABs has something to do with that. They may prefer players in the ABs XV who can actually be called into the senior squad when injury strikes.
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders 2023:
@TheMojoman said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
All I will say is, out of Bell, Hotham, Holland, etc. I'd honestly rather have Holland, who we poached from Canterbury. Bell is also going to the top, no doubt, but I genuinely think Fabian Holland's potential is endless - I'm talking an all-time great.
He is an NBA style athlete, and there have been very few do what he has done at such a young age...
Amazing talent at only 20. What impresses me is he doesn’t shirk the work and like Retallick has a big engine. I’m surprised Holland wasn’t in AB XV as well.
Maybe Holland still having to wait a long time (I think until October 2025) to be eligible for the ABs has something to do with that. They may prefer players in the ABs XV who can actually be called into the senior squad when injury strikes.
Yeah they've been pretty clear this AB XV is about depth for next year RWC.
