Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host
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@NTA said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
I've just seen the red card against Gold 16 Marsters.
Tackler's head hit ball runner's shoulder first which is not "direct" head contact. The red card is therefore incorrect, which precipitates the second red card.
So both red cards should be rubbed out.
I’m not quite with you. One of the reds was for two yellows.
I might be getting a bit confused about which one was which. There was a shoulder to head that the ref called “significant drop in height”. If that’s the case her definition of significant is a bit different to mine. I think that was was a shoulder on the face. Even if it rode up it was a really dumb and dangerous tackle as the tackler was driving up anyway. Direct contact is only a part of the judgement of degree of danger and after “has head contact occurred “ and “is there foul play”You can still make indirect contact and a high degree of danger eg driving up hard touching upper chest first and into the chin for a KO.
Right across the games there are a lot of players going in to contact very upright. I noticed the yellow girls doing it heaps. Speed of the game catching them out as this level? Runners into them quicker than they expect? -
@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
One of the reds was for two yellows.
It was. From the starting hooker who was forced to come back on for the reserve hooker who was incorrectly given a red card.
If the correct decision was made in the first place, that risk is never encountered.
Tenuous? Perhaps. Perhaps that tackle was a red in itself.
But it shows the disadvantage when officials get it badly wrong in a fairly clear framework.
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@NTA said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
One of the reds was for two yellows.
It was. From the starting hooker who was forced to come back on for the reserve hooker who was incorrectly given a red card.
If the correct decision was made in the first place, that risk is never encountered.
Tenuous? Perhaps. Perhaps that tackle was a red in itself.
But it shows the disadvantage when officials get it badly wrong in a fairly clear framework.
What’s your reason for it being badly wrong? I’m curious.
I’ll spell out my track of the framework.Head contact? Yes.
Foul play? Yes. Tackler never dipped. Therefore high tackle.
What was degree of danger? Shoulder to head is high in my book from a tackle driving up. Ref thought the same but this part is opinion rather than clearly defined. Guidelines might mention direct vs indirect as a consideration but that doesn’t mean then you can’t red an indirect contact.
Mitigation? None. -
@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
What’s your reason for it being badly wrong? I’m curious.
The tackler's head hits the ball carriers shoulder first. There is head contact but it isn't "direct" head to head in the first instance.
We've seen tackles this year where there was a head clash but the point of first impact is not the head. They were ruled accordingly by the onfield team of officials.
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@NTA said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
What’s your reason for it being badly wrong? I’m curious.
The tackler's head hits the ball carriers shoulder first. There is head contact but it isn't "direct" head to head in the first instance.
We've seen tackles this year where there was a head clash but the point of first impact is not the head. They were ruled accordingly by the onfield team of officials.
But that isn’t a rule in the process so you can’t claim that the ref isn’t following protocol. Just that other refs see it differently (like many aspects of the game)
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Enjoyed that Fiji v SA game. SA defended brilliantly all game but just as they took the lead, lost the kick off, and the game. Deserved win for Fiji.
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@African-Monkey Thought Fiji had their moments against England especially in the first half. Will be Interesting to see the growth in the women's game over the next few years. Qualifying for the WC was a real coup and they have the doggedness and grit within the setup to really improve set piece issues. They have the firepower and creativity. One to watch.
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Fiji had a stack of handling errors and really should have won by more. They've benefited from things like SuperW in terms of getting their cohesion moving upwards.
SA have great building blocks tho, and just need to lift their investment and scheduling to get more games. Problem is they're just going to whack all the local nations so have to get harder opponents in Europe or the Pacific, increasing the expense. Tough problem.
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@NTA said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
Wow. France v England - just the first half shows how far ahead they are of a lot of nations at ruck time.
They are also far ahead of the ruck! As a freshly badged ref what is your take on the way these NH womens teams all seem to fold around the tackle area (join legally but on the fringe then keep moving forward until they fall and disrupt). Also joining at the fringe, moving forward then disengaging so as to be a nuisance. Looks to be coached to me and the refs do nothing.
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Even more so, this England team hasn't known much scoreboard pressure let alone being behind. We've seen it before with the ABs (2007 springs to mind with SA being the only team to beat us in 30 odd games). Froze and didn't know what to do despite being the better team.
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@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
@NTA said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
Wow. France v England - just the first half shows how far ahead they are of a lot of nations at ruck time.
They are also far ahead of the ruck! As a freshly badged ref what is your take on the way these NH womens teams all seem to fold around the tackle area (join legally but on the fringe then keep moving forward until they fall and disrupt). Also joining at the fringe, moving forward then disengaging so as to be a nuisance. Looks to be coached to me and the refs do nothing.
England got pinged for it a couple of times (their 17 in particular was bad at making it look innocent), but I think it is the natural progression of teams into a more professional mindset, where the officials are well behind them in terms of quality. Push it right to the edge and then keep pushing if the ref says nothing.
The rampant offside at maul is also a problem here - barely picked up at all and I think there needs to be a focus on this.
A lot of our girls are still playing for what I'd term "A Competitive Level Of Enjoyment", and not for sheep stations. That will change once it is a living and not just a passionate hobby.
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@Crucial said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
Even more so, this England team hasn't known much scoreboard pressure let alone being behind. We've seen it before with the ABs (2007 springs to mind with SA being the only team to beat us in 30 odd games). Froze and didn't know what to do despite being the better team.
One dimensional? Definitely - a lot like their men's team TBH because they don't give a shit about looking good, just winning the game they gave to the world
Thing is, that single dimension is pretty fucking good. Odds are it will carry them through to a win in this RWC, but when the rest of the chasing pack are investing a proportionate amount of money into it, things will get sticky real quick.
Their defence is top notch, to the point where France had to kick to break it open for a try. I am eagerly awaiting how that defence goes against NZ's offload game.
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I'm not so concerned about the scrum. We can be better than we were against Wales and hopefully there aren't too many scrums.
Mauls are an issue though. First thing that and England or France will try is to kick deep knowing that our clearance kicking isn't great. Even at 40 metres out they will maul and draw a penalty for the kick to touch and maul again. Rinse and repeat.
So it is either disrupt the lineout before the maul can form or be very disciplined.
Given the way that attacking players seem to be able to join at will, Mauls are being allowed to split off the side and still be called as same maul and spinning the maul basically gives you a free 10 metres before defenders can rejoin, the advantage is heavily in the mauling team's favour. -
Having watched a bit of it through "highlights", these women are being badly let down by a standard of refereeing not up to the task.
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@antipodean said in Womens RWC 2021 -NZ to host:
Having watched a bit of it through "highlights", these women are being badly let down by a standard of refereeing not up to the task.
Haven’t watched all the matches, but any men reffing?
