The Current State of Rugby
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@NTA That last one about advantage could backfire a bit. At the moment teams do have to keep playing as there is a risk that advantage is called over just before they try to claim it .
Why not allow a response to the advantage call? Ref calls advantage, team can call for it within two phases or it is over. Teams can know quickly if the act that caused the advantage has compromised them.
More use of the free kick would be the biggest time saver. -
I don't see the point of this arbitrary three phase - what if it took you three phases to build the opportunity that a blind ref can't see and now blows the pea out of the whistle?
If it's up to the refs discretion, no more needs to be said.
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@antipodean I think they're trying to create clear parameters around time limits in order to keep the game moving. Throw in the fact that a referee's perception of advantage is about as consistent as anything else in the game.
I can see what they mean in one context - maybe one of those offside penalties 10m out results in the attacking side going multiple phases over a minute to try and score, but they knock on so you come back. You've burned a minute of game time.
OTOH what if there are a lot of offloads as the opposition look to score and we get to 3 phases well over a minute later?
I assume they've got some basis for 3 phases from data they're looking at on a timing basis.
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@antipodean I think they're trying to create clear parameters around time limits in order to keep the game moving. Throw in the fact that a referee's perception of advantage is about as consistent as anything else in the game.
I can see what they mean in one context - maybe one of those offside penalties 10m out results in the attacking side going multiple phases over a minute to try and score, but they knock on so you come back. You've burned a minute of game time.
OTOH what if there are a lot of offloads as the opposition look to score and we get to 3 phases well over a minute later?
Who gives a fuck how many pick and goes there are if the ball is in play? Isn't that the overriding issue?
I assume they've got some basis for 3 phases from data they're looking at on a timing basis.
I'd be surprised if any decisions they amde were data driven. They just don't seem bright enough.
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with mauls I'd like them to only allow one stoppage, once a maul is called, it must start moving forwards, if not, a stoppage includes staitionary, going backwards or sideways, and maybe police the attacking side for pulling them down and joining incorrectly as well.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
with mauls I'd like them to only allow one stoppage, once a maul is called, it must start moving forwards, if not, a stoppage includes staitionary, going backwards or sideways, and maybe police the attacking side for pulling them down and joining incorrectly as well.
you mean, the way it used to be reffed?
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Last weekend, wet day. I watched a couple of hours of rugby on YouTube. Some of it from the era of my youth when I like the sport E.g. some 1989 tour games, and Otago v British Lions in 1993. I also watched some from before my time (1964 NZ v France test - what absolute chaos, but can’t deny that for about 75% of the 80 minutes there is competition for possession occurring, so engaging). Some stuff from 1979 that was before my time.
Then, YouTube feed suggested highlights of Canterbury v Auckland match played the night before.
Now, NZRU’s NPC YouTube feeds are excellent, about 10 to 12 minutes long.
It’s just a shame that actual modern rugby is terrible.
I think I only lasted about 2 minutes, 2 tries (all under penalty advantage, of course) and 2 yellows. Then. Went back to watching something else.Now, I think I’ve said before on this thread that I’m probably not a good sample for “state of the modern game” as I am too invested in the version of when I actually liked the sport. And there’s just tooooo much to change to get it back to a decent state.
But … my God. The advantage law has turned from Rugby’s best feature (compared to soccer for example) to it’s biggest curse. I, for one, do not want to watch teams going side to side for 1 to 2 minutes from barely contested ruck to barely contested ruck just to come back 10 or 20m to the penalty.
Re: the NZRU Youtube videos referenced above. I wouldn’t be surprised if 7 or 8 minutes of the 10 minutes clip is action played under advantage.
I, for one, find any action played under advantage to just be a bit boring. I get Netball vibes.
Now, as an aside … why am I, a man in my 40s in the earnings peak of my life watching free sport on YouTube and not paying for a rugby/sport subscription service?
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When I watch, most games as a neutral, I just kinda shiver inside, as soon as I hear from the miced-up refs something like "Advantage, 4 lifting the leg", or "Advantage, 6 offside" (or "From the side" , or "too slow" etc).
I just usually don't really care about the offence, sometimes I even rewind to check them (although hard on youtube) just to see what major catastrophe has just made the next 1 minute of my viewing pointless. Usually it's nothing. Just the offence of being near a break down/maul.
I'd rather watch less ball in play. But it is being contested by 2 teams not afraid to contest.
God, remember when crowds used to cheer a defensive team driving a maul into touch? About 2 guys would get binned for that now.
Oh, and remove the 'penalty kick to touch retains posession'. That law flip should have been re-flipped once lifting made lineouts a 90% sure thing.
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The worst part about rugby is that it's a complete, major, utterly useless clusterfuck of a mess to explain the game to someone that's new or hasn't seen it before.
Heck it's even difficult to explain the game to people who have actually played the game a little while back and can't keep up or even understand all the new rule changes (not their fault).
I mean I sit there and try and explain the rules to people and tbh - you sound like a complete and utter dick as you go through them and no wonder you see their eyes glaze over...
Explaining the rules of the English Royal Constitution would probably be easier and more logical...
Rugby as a product these days is poor, even committed fans find it hard to understand, new people enjoy the spectacle but have no idea what's going on which greatly decreases the enjoyment level.
The ball is in play less and less, the umpires are taking up more and more time on the field and it's shambolically stop/start. Set pieces take an age. Measures to "speed the game up" are swamped by increasingly litigious and officious applications of the law.
You can see why people enjoy soccer and league more, at least you can understand what's going on and don't have 10 minutes of officials pouring over decisions on the field every game.
Rugby if it wants to become more popular and relevant globally must simplify the game - in it's current state it risks going back globally at an alarming rate (playing numbers have only been held up by the woman's game and that uptake wont last forever).
More concerning for me, as an ex player is that I see the game getting less and less physical - more athletic yes, but certainly less physical - it risks becoming sanitized, safe and boring. Yes there was something brutal, violent maybe - but that was part of the game. Part of the appeal is the gladiatorial aspect of the game which is increasingly being wiped out.
Again this isn't good for the game - if gladiatorial combat isn't popular then check out the meteoric rise of the UFC, its lack of politics and simple brutality has an appeal - certainly compared to boxing. I'm not saying make it violent but there seems to be a push to get the game to a point where your almost going to have to apologize for tackling someone hard (and indeed I've seen perfectly legal tackles get painfully reviewed over and over gain as there MUST have been some foul play as the poor chap got hurt when it has been little more than a well executed tackle).
So in short the game has changed into something I don't like a great deal. It's not great to watch and becoming less and less of a spectacle every year. Rugby in short has lost it's soul in a blaze of complex laws and softness and is increasingly becoming more and more complex and soft every passing year.
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@Windows97 I took a son and a couple of his AFL mates who had never been to live rugby to the Melbourne Test ,
They were open minded to it but overall they kind of felt it is a sport that is really over officiated , but on a positive note really enjoyed the bits where the ball was in play , but then would politely make comments like , it really has a lot of moments where nothing at all is happening doesnt it ?
And they also were really puzzled at how often players get sent from the field and asked if fans find that acceptable
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i could be miles off and ive only given this like 15sec thought....but would it speed up scrums if the team with the ball didn't have to wait for the opposition, if they can form up then they can just walk over it and crack on
typing this makes me see obvious issues, given how rare tightheads are would the opposition just concede the scrum and spread out, opposition forwards cant make the first tackle after a scrum? really just wondering about speeding up restarts
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@Windows97 I've often told people that of the three codes (that aren't soccer) to appreciate them, league is a game made for TV, AFL is a game you have to see live and rugby is a game you really have to have played. Rugby is basically incomprehensible otherwise.
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@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
rugby is a game you really have to have played. Rugby is basically incomprehensible otherwise.
And even then....
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@kiwiinmelb said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Windows97 I took a son and a couple of his AFL mates who had never been to live rugby to the Melbourne Test ,
They were open minded to it but overall they kind of felt it is a sport that is really over officiated , but on a positive note really enjoyed the bits where the ball was in play , but then would politely make comments like , it really has a lot of moments where nothing at all is happening doesnt it ?
And they also were really puzzled at how often players get sent from the field and asked if fans find that acceptable
My 9 year old at the last Bledisloe made the comment "why the hell does the game constantly stop for no reason at all". He was the same, loved when ball was in play, but got bored with all the stoppages. There was one part where they took ages looking at a tackle around the ankles? We had no idea what was happening. And then in another stoppage the worst thing happened, not one, but TWO Mexican waves started going around the ground. At a rugby match. Sorry but that's a pretty clear sign the crowd is getting bored waiting for the officials to figure it out.
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
The biggest problem, as always, is that the NH (especially UK) teams have no problem wanting a confrontational and slow game.
Was interesting to tweet about the modificiations that QRU will run in their Challenger Series i.e. cracking down on time taken to clear rucks, set scrums, take kicks etc.
In response to this I posted to the effect of "NH will hate this" and immediately several Poms and Irish jumped in stating that some of them are already Law but not enforced properly.
Point 1 of 'Lineout'
Point 1 of 'Deliberate Knock Down'Do these fucking idiots watch rugby?
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I have said before I dislike immensely the idea that a 9 can't advance beyond the midpoint of scrum, will allow slow 9 plenty of time to get ball etc. Too many of these trial laws are designed to cover up lack of skills of players I think. And with no pressure don't bother with 5m scrums everyone should result in easy try as 8 or 9 can get such easy metres of scrum.
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@Rapido said in The Current State of Rugby:
Last weekend, wet day. I watched a couple of hours of rugby on YouTube. Some of it from the era of my youth when I like the sport E.g. some 1989 tour games, and Otago v British Lions in 1993. I also watched some from before my time (1964 NZ v France test - what absolute chaos, but can’t deny that for about 75% of the 80 minutes there is competition for possession occurring, so engaging). Some stuff from 1979 that was before my time.
Then, YouTube feed suggested highlights of Canterbury v Auckland match played the night before.
Now, NZRU’s NPC YouTube feeds are excellent, about 10 to 12 minutes long.
It’s just a shame that actual modern rugby is terrible.
I think I only lasted about 2 minutes, 2 tries (all under penalty advantage, of course) and 2 yellows. Then. Went back to watching something else.Now, I think I’ve said before on this thread that I’m probably not a good sample for “state of the modern game” as I am too invested in the version of when I actually liked the sport. And there’s just tooooo much to change to get it back to a decent state.
But … my God. The advantage law has turned from Rugby’s best feature (compared to soccer for example) to it’s biggest curse. I, for one, do not want to watch teams going side to side for 1 to 2 minutes from barely contested ruck to barely contested ruck just to come back 10 or 20m to the penalty.
Re: the NZRU Youtube videos referenced above. I wouldn’t be surprised if 7 or 8 minutes of the 10 minutes clip is action played under advantage.
I, for one, find any action played under advantage to just be a bit boring. I get Netball vibes.
Now, as an aside … why am I, a man in my 40s in the earnings peak of my life watching free sport on YouTube and not paying for a rugby/sport subscription service?
superb post. the game is gone to the dogs really.
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English Premiership has been highly entertaining the first weeks of the season
And hard nosed as fuck
Best club rugby to watch at the moment IMHO
