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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588168" data-time="1465954690">
<div>
<p>Im trying to keep this discussion focussed on the country where this guy was born, grew up, got radicalised and subsequently committed a mass shooting.</p>
<p>Its you who is trying to change the parameters to suit your anti islam narrative by expanding the discussion to Islamic countries. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>My intent re HateCrimes was to demonstrate that homosexuals are indeed ostracized in America which you had challenged. Hate Crimes performed under Islam is not a relevant counter argument.</p>
<p>If the Anti LGBT bills are only "supposedly discriminatory" and "is highly debatable", it should be quite easy for you to attack this point.</p>
<p>I don't know about the regressive left... perhaps you can ask them... whoever they are...</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am keeping the discussion based on the ideology that caused the hate crime. I am not changing anything, I am not restricting what you can talk about, you are trying to limit the conversation to what suits you.</p>
<p>It appears you may know more about the regressive left than you realise.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="588172" data-time="1465955483">
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<p>I am keeping the discussion based on the ideology that caused the hate crime. I am not changing anything, I am not restricting what you can talk about, you are trying to limit the conversation to what suits you.</p>
<p>It appears you may know more about the regressive left than you realise.</p>
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<p>The thread is about gun control in the US so I think you are moving the goalposts</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="588175" data-time="1465955599">
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<p>The thread is about gun control in the US so I think you are moving the goalposts</p>
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<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh really..... yet you didnt chose to tell anyone else this when they started talking about homosexuality in a gun control thread... how telling.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="588185" data-time="1465957179">
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<p>If you want to discuss the motives of the Orlando shooter, you can't ignore the politics/belief system of his Taliban supporting, active in Afghani politics, father.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>You know who hates the Taliban? Fucking <em>ISIS</em>. AQ as well. They hate any Muslim who doesn't dig their shit, just as much as the rest.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Surprised he didn't take a moment to put a few rounds in the old man first, as was his duty to the Caliphate. You know, given all the "ties" he had to ISIS.</p> -
<p>Wow. Mate of mine put this on FB - said he'd verified a few of the stories using the date and state (their FB page has links to the stories).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That is some crazy shit.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>[attachment=2036:pagv.jpg]</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> -
<p>I had to check out that squirrel story. Its as crazy as it sounds.</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/10/squirrel-guy-ordered-to-stand-trial-on-attempted-murder-charge-after-shooting-neighbor-in-butt/'>http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/10/squirrel-guy-ordered-to-stand-trial-on-attempted-murder-charge-after-shooting-neighbor-in-butt/</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="588182" data-time="1465956922"><p>Oh really..... yet you didnt chose to tell anyone else this when they started talking about homosexuality in a gun control thread... how telling.</p></blockquote>Gun massacre in a gay nightclub in the USA fits the thread. But I think you know that
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<p>This makes me think of the film American Beauty and the guy who kills Kevin Spacey. He's a closet homosexual who has a belief system that tells him his natural desires are wrong or evil. His response is to kill the object of his desires. That was his way of atoning.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="588194" data-time="1465959819">
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<p>Gun massacre in a gay nightclub in the USA fits the thread. But I think you know that</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>A Islam inspired gun massacre in a gay nightclub in the USA fits the the thread as well. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="588190" data-time="1465959063">
<div>
<p>Wow. Mate of mine put this on FB - said he'd verified a few of the stories using the date and state (their FB page has links to the stories).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That is some crazy shit.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><img src="http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif" alt="attachicon.gif"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=2036'>pagv.jpg</a></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Shit like that is why gun control is a necessity. Fucking assholes who escalate from hello to homicidal in 0.5 seconds for the most insane reasons.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No impulse control, no filter, no qualms about putting a bullet in another person, but they can buy a gun in seven fucking minutes.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="588214" data-time="1465962293">
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<p>Shit like that is why gun control is a necessity. Fucking assholes who escalate from hello to homicidal in 0.5 seconds for the most insane reasons.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Some asshole said the team I posted on the internet was shit, so I tracked him down and shot him! :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="588217" data-time="1465962847">
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<p>Some asshole said the team I posted on the internet was shit, so I tracked him down and shot him! :)</p>
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<p>at least he was right before he died</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588193" data-time="1465959701">
<p>I had to check out that squirrel story. Its as crazy as it sounds.<br><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/10/squirrel-guy-ordered-to-stand-trial-on-attempted-murder-charge-after-shooting-neighbor-in-butt/'>http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/10/squirrel-guy-ordered-to-stand-trial-on-attempted-murder-charge-after-shooting-neighbor-in-butt/</a></p>
</blockquote>
<br><p>The links for all of them are provided <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/ParentsAgainstGunViolence/photos/a.416647195073938.95672.413407645397893/1059551464116838/?type=3'>here</a>.</p> -
<p><strong><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/noor-zahi-salman-omar-mateen.html'>After F.B.I.’s Inquiry Into Omar Mateen, a Focus on What Else Could Be Done</a></strong></p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="588234" data-time="1465967190">
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<p><strong><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/noor-zahi-salman-omar-mateen.html'>After F.B.I.’s Inquiry Into Omar Mateen, a Focus on What Else Could Be Done</a></strong></p>
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<p>Nice article Tim. In the context of gun control the fact this guy was inspired by ISIS is a distraction from the real issue. Until the government is willing to pass laws to aid in gun control anyone, be they wannabe Islamic jihadist, mentally impaired, filled with hate for something or someone/anyone can buy a gun and do shit like this. It won't solve the issue but the problem has multiple risk points and the more of these that can be reduced the better</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="588234" data-time="1465967190">
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<p><strong><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/noor-zahi-salman-omar-mateen.html'>After F.B.I.’s Inquiry Into Omar Mateen, a Focus on What Else Could Be Done</a></strong></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Good read. Liked these two bits when put together:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:17px;">Even if Mr. Mateen had remained on the watch list, it would not have stopped him from buying a gun. Congress blocked an attempt last year to give the F.B.I. the power to block gun sales to people on terrorism watch lists.</span></strong></p>
<p>...</p>
<p><strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:17px;">The National Rifle Association moved quickly to quash discussion of new gun policies. In </span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/06/13/gun-laws-deter-terrorists-opposing-view/85844946/'>a piece for USA Today</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:17px;">, Chris W. Cox, the group’s executive director, blamed the federal authorities for not doing more to stop Mr. Mateen. “His former co-workers reported violent and racist comments,†Mr. Cox wrote. “Unfortunately, the Obama administration’s political correctness prevented anything from being done about it.â€</span></strong></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="588252" data-time="1465972002"><p>
Good read. Liked these two bits when put together:<br><br>
]<span style="color:#333333;"><span style="font-family:georgia;">Even if Mr. Mateen had remained on the watch list, it would not have stopped him from buying a gun. Congress blocked an attempt last year to give the F.B.I. the power to block gun sales to people on terrorism watch lists.[/size]</span></span></p></blockquote>
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Mad men fed on fear and lies with easy access to semi-automatic weapons. What could possibly go wrong? -
<p>I've been thinking about some of the stats that Canefan brought to our attention by posting this BBC article <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604'>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here's one:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">According to figures from the </span><a class="" href="http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf">US Department of Justice</a><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"> and the </span><a class="" href="http://blogs.cfr.org/zenko/2012/09/27/tracking-u-s-citizens-deaths-by-terrorism/">Council on Foreign Affairs</a><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">, 11,385 people died on average annually in firearm incidents in the US between 2001 and 2011. </span></p>
<p style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">In the same period, an average of 517 people were killed annually in terror-related incidents. Removing 2001, when 9/11 occurred, from the calculation produces an annual average of just 31.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">So, all the anti Islam apologists, so keen to assign this massacre as an Islam issue versus a gun control issue riddle me this:</span></span></p>
<p style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">If you get rid of Islam, will you'll still get massacres? (actually don't bother answering, I've heard all you have to say)</span></span></p>
Guns?.........or is that the least of the problems?