Super Rugby 2022
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@ACT-Crusader we dont think theres any value in the slim chance of promotion sparking interest in teams currently outside the top10? or relegation sparking interest in bottom of the table games?
anyone outside the top 10 isn't going to have professional players, so they are no hope.
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@mariner4life speaking as an otago fan...i wouldn't be surprised if we ever got rolled by by a heartland team fizzing and coming of winning their comp....and thats if you bothered with a promotion/relegation game
if it was automatic then the team coming up get to put their players on one year professional contracts plus bring some new guys...might still get a hiding against the top teams...but thats literally what we're asking aussie to do currently whilst claiming it would be good for them...make them better in the long run
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@ACT-Crusader said in Super Rugby 2022:
@KiwiMurph yep. And unlike the Premier League I don’t think relegation / promotion will work for NZ rugby.
There needs to be some certainty for a good period to get the new comp established etc.
The reality is we're in 2022. We've had professionalism for decades. Professional unions need to be amongst population centres and the others can all be clubs with proud histories.
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So, where are the teams?
North Auckland somethings (based in North Harbour)
Blues
Moana Pasifika
Chiefs
Steamers
Hurricanes
Mako
Crusaders
Highlanders- Drua, another pacific team, or?
I'm trying to think of places where we can get players to actually live, as one key issue will be that there will have to be a way of avoiding teams stacking talent.
No idea how to do that except making it so franchises can't use more than a certain percentage of the NZRU player budget (i.e., including All Black money).
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
So, where are the teams?
the issue is Super money is hardly enough to justify relocating for a draft or similar. Drafts work where the money is silly, so it's a no brainer. Super players are getting 75 to 195k (from last year - article online). For people with family, that may not be enough to actually make them want to shift.
interesting discussion though, good work
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@nzzp yep, IMO draft would never work in NZ, given right now, bottom end NPC salaries are c $15k, which in most cases will be kids or young men with a job, sure some might see it as the right move for thier careers, but is that worth relocating for 10 weeks?
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
So, where are the teams?
the issue is Super money is hardly enough to justify relocating for a draft or similar. Drafts work where the money is silly, so it's a no brainer. Super players are getting 75 to 195k (from last year - article online). For people with family, that may not be enough to actually make them want to shift.
interesting discussion though, good work
i assumed we were talking a draft of young guys coming out of 1stXV....so less likely to have families and more keen to play some code and prove themselves...not a draft like early super rugby where it was those not wanted by their home franchise
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp yep, IMO draft would never work in NZ, given right now, bottom end NPC salaries are c $15k, which in most cases will be kids or young men with a job, sure some might see it as the right move for thier careers, but is that worth relocating for 10 weeks?
are those numbers so low because it is a secondary comp we'd expect them to go up if it was the "premier" comp wouldn;t we?
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
So, where are the teams?
the issue is Super money is hardly enough to justify relocating for a draft or similar. Drafts work where the money is silly, so it's a no brainer. Super players are getting 75 to 195k (from last year - article online). For people with family, that may not be enough to actually make them want to shift.
interesting discussion though, good work
I have no idea how to do it for young talent and senior players, as if the Crusaders can retain their current talent, any new entrants will be fucked from the get-go.
To be honest, we'd probably be better starting a competition with the existing 6 teams plus 6 Japanese teams. That's. a much higher TV audience.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
To be honest, we'd probably be better starting a competition with the existing 6 teams plus 6 Japanese teams. That's. a much higher TV audience.
It is - but has the timing issues. Midsummer there is midwinter here...
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
To be honest, we'd probably be better starting a competition with the existing 6 teams plus 6 Japanese teams. That's. a much higher TV audience.
It is - but has the timing issues. Midsummer there is midwinter here...
but super rugby is played from feb to may or early june....so summer through till winter and largely autumn
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
To be honest, we'd probably be better starting a competition with the existing 6 teams plus 6 Japanese teams. That's. a much higher TV audience.
It is - but has the timing issues. Midsummer there is midwinter here...
It does. But, if we could talk them into Feb - June we'd be OK. The final games in June would get hot (however our February games are hot), so it should be doable.
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We have to tap into the big population places like Japan and US. That’s where the money is to maintain a comp and decent salaries, not New Plymouth.
All of these arguments about drafts and player movements become redundant if the pay is good.
Even a comp at 20% of the big US or Europe sports is massive bucks for our players.
Pretty good way to boost player numbers and underlying comps if there’s a big money carrot and/or prospect of being a “star”
We are a tiny little island nation at the bottom of the world that happens to be good at one sport. Finding a way to take that to big money countries while WR still allows it and doesn’t demand its grubby mits in the pot is critical to the sport here IMO or we will just wither on the vine.
We can’t even rely on international stuff anymore as better resourced countries have woken up. -
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble I don't know why people look at the NRL and AFL and conclude a domestic comp couldn't possibly work. Isn't that evidence domestic comps are popular?
@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@antipodean of course not. But playing yourselves will be detrimental to continued interest and therefore success.
Got it. Australian rugby by itself has merit. NZ by itself is doomed to fail. This despite NZ having far more RU interest locally than Australia. (Did I mention 3x more TV revenue?)
I love how it's NZ rugby and it's supporters who are living in fantasy land and not their Australian counterparts.
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@Frye I think NZ rugby would be able to garner a good comp outside of SR. It will get viewers and supporters if the teams are identifiable, but the reality is we won’t be able to hold on to top players for long because it won’t generate the sort of revenue needed and we will need our own Giteau rules to ensure AB quality.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Frye I think NZ rugby would be able to garner a good comp outside of SR. It will get viewers and supporters if the teams are identifiable, but the reality is we won’t be able to hold on to top players for long because it won’t generate the sort of revenue needed and we will need our own Giteau rules to ensure AB quality.
I didn't suggest we should go it alone.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Frye I think NZ rugby would be able to garner a good comp outside of SR. It will get viewers and supporters if the teams are identifiable, but the reality is we won’t be able to hold on to top players for long because it won’t generate the sort of revenue needed and we will need our own Giteau rules to ensure AB quality.
the NRL has a cap of $9.4M for each club, for 30 players.
So we're gonna need a bigger broadcast deal just to pay the wage bill for 10 teams.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial this kind of thinking is what got us here in the first place.
Nah. I think the slow demise of Super Rugby can be easily traced to both SA and Aus stretching themselves too far.
It’s fair to say that NZ maybe should have only ever had four teams to start but it was the addition of weak teams from elsewhere that stuffed the standard format which meant we had to create even more to make groups and fit it all in.
What I am suggesting brings real money and doesn’t lock players to franchises of their own country unless they want. Less weakness and more money.
