Super Rugby 2022
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
This is hilarious. 'We arent dicks but even if we are we are allowed to be because we are so great and also John ONeill'.
Cool cool.
no no you misunderstand.
We are dicks, absolutely. I am saying we should be, and we've earned it
Aus on the other hand need to
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Looking at it from another point of view.
If Super Rugby Pacific is to remain - how do the Rebels and Force become truly competitive?
Force have been around on/off since 2006 - Rebels have been around since 2011 - neither have sniffed the pointy end of the competition in any season - from memory the best result for either is Rebels finished 3rd in 2020 5 team Super Rugby Aus comp and Force finished 3rd in the 2021 5 team Super Rugby Aus comp.
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I think through it all, SANZAR, Trans Ta$man, and I'm including Silverlake too, when NZ is looking like fools, the common denominator is Mark Robinson.
Sure we hold a decent hand at the table, but we also need to realise we have to have someone to play with, otherwise if we win all thier money, what then?
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2022:
Looking at it from another point of view.
If Super Rugby Pacific is to remain - how do the Rebels and Force become truly competitive?
Force have been around on/off since 2006 - Rebels have been around since 2011 - neither have sniffed the pointy end of the competition in any season - from memory the best result for either is Rebels finished 3rd in 2020 5 team Super Rugby Aus comp and Force finished 3rd in the 2021 5 team Super Rugby Aus comp.
looking at the rebels because im in melbourne....i dont think its possible without either a very long game developing a domestic comp between club rugby and super rugby...or just buying in foreigners
There are eight dewar shield clubs in greater melbourne....8...providing the local talent...and until last night when our club got 15 new fijians (only one bloody front rower thought!)...we couldn't field three teams
aussie needs to raise interest and therefore the player pool and the current structure isn't cutting it
I spend too much of my time telling rhe coach he cant just drop guys because they'll just bugger off and we dont have anyone to replace them....thats rugby in melbourne
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@Kiwiwomble I don't know why people look at the NRL and AFL and conclude a domestic comp couldn't possibly work. Isn't that evidence domestic comps are popular?
A-League obviously a good counterpoint to this - though it is probably barely in the top 100 of global leagues in terms of quality.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble I don't know why people look at the NRL and AFL and conclude a domestic comp couldn't possibly work. Isn't that evidence domestic comps are popular?
A-League obviously a good counterpoint to this - though it is probably barely in the top 100 of global leagues in terms of quality.
maybe not quality but it "successful"...its expanding and the international team have qualified for the world cup five times in a row
some would say football in aus has never been more stable
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
so you want me to lie?
i also don't believe this lovely utopia where two unions work together harmoniously exists. Especially because our only leverage in anything rugby related is that we are good at it.
then maybe we just need to let them go and try and make the best of a domestic comp....if we dont think we can make it work then maybe we dont have the cards we think we do
Didn't they try to start one a few years ago and failed?
That was a 3rd tier comp ala the NPC - different from a domestic 2nd tier comp.
So what is stopping them expanding SR Oz style? Then sending the top 3 or 4 teams from that comp into a larger comp with us and the Pacific teams?
I think that's exactly what they are considering right now. Bear in mind they'll get a huge cash windfall from the 2027 RWC + potential private investment.
Didn't take them long to blow the last lot from back in 2003.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
While the disaster that followed through from the Aratipu Report was foreseeable and entirely avoidable, the relationship with ARU has always been fractious solely because they (and their supporters) can't stand that they keep losing. Have no doubt, there's visceral hatred of NZ rugby in Australia.
Complaining about that behaviour and then doing this interview with their media mouthpiece is the height of hypocrisy.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
And yet he's right. NZRU have been shit to deal with and the idea of a domestic comp is worth consideration - particularly because the fans want it.
Not enough of them to make it viable. It can't generate the revenues to keep halfway decent players in the country.
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@antipodean well neither does SR. Most of the tiny deal we currently have is based on Wallabies value.
Plus - you have to consider why there a no fans anymore. SR is probably a significant factor in the decline.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life they hold plenty. You fluffybunnies gunna play yourselves and still maintain world dominance? An Australian domestic comp could doom Aus but it also has potential.
We certainly aren't good at the game because we play Australian Super Rugby teams.
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@antipodean of course not. But playing yourselves will be detrimental to continued interest and therefore success.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@antipodean well neither does SR. Most of the tiny deal we currently have is based on Wallabies value.
Plus - you have to consider why there a no fans anymore. SR is probably a significant factor in the decline.
And whose genius drove that decline? The reality is the general public in Australia are fair weather fans - Australia has to be winning for them to give a fuck.
Which is why there's constant calls for the best New Zealand players to be drafted into these donkey expansion teams to make them competitive.
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moving to Stan fucked it as well
There is not a single pub in Cairns that carries Stan Sport (apparently it's fucking expensive) so there is one level of interest gone. You can't even go to the pub with your mates and watch the Reds play a QF.
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@antipodean probably right, which actually seems like an argument in support of a domestic comp.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@antipodean well neither does SR. Most of the tiny deal we currently have is based on Wallabies value.
Plus - you have to consider why there a no fans anymore. SR is probably a significant factor in the decline.
I think to be more accurate - lack of SR success is probably a significant factor in the decline.
And that’s fair enough when it comes to fans and also the casual follower.
Success breeds all sorts of things - quality players, coaches, administrators, sponsors, buy in etc. Look at that Crusaders thread!
My simple way of thinking about it is that it has gotten to the point that the ARU want to see if a domestic comp (and all that comes with that - TV, marketing etc) can work without SR hanging over their heads.
The problem is that the de-entanglement from old SANZAR remnants and now SRP don’t make that easy or clean, so what happens when something is not easy or straightforward, there is a tendency for some to shoot from the hip publicly and see what reactions they get - hence these articles.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble I don't know why people look at the NRL and AFL and conclude a domestic comp couldn't possibly work. Isn't that evidence domestic comps are popular?
A-League obviously a good counterpoint to this - though it is probably barely in the top 100 of global leagues in terms of quality.
The AFL and NRL are like Coles and Woolies, and they will tell you that the domestic supermarket sector is “working” too 😉
The A-League’s, Netball comp’s of the Aussie sport landscape, plus whatever the ARU has in mind are like the small independents that will struggle, charge $8 for a loaf of bread, but only be able to offer a very niche product for Tv deals. If that’s what they want then there will be pain, but it will be their pain and they will own and control it (probably along with a significant boost of corporate welfare from govt)
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@ACT-Crusader but that's what we've already got. We were offered a pittance for SR.
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Ditch Super and the central contracts. Take our existing franchises (including Drua and MP) and add in franchises based in Tokyo, Honolulu and the US West coast.
Time zones work with a bit of clever scheduling for all games to be on at drinking time in two places at once (whether that is arvo, evening, late arvo). Put salary caps on and a draft. Players can either put their hats in the ring for overseas franchises or not. Sell it to Amazon.
Let's see Oz come grovelling to be part of that as their own local comp is stripped of players. -
@Crucial nah I think the semi global comps are doomed. No one cares.
All the best leagues in the world are local.
Is there a good semi/ global league anywhere In team sport?
I said this during covid and still stand buy it. Full npc with Heineken cup to add flavour.
Test tours play npc teams for more pizazz.
