Super Rugby missing the Saffas?
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@kiwiwomble you could argue a full NPC over Super right now would have more appeal esp. with ABs and Super players all back in the provinces, it would provide more variety.
At least MP & Drua have provided something a little different this year, hopefully they will improve quickly.
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So we're to believe that the reason the All Blacks lost to Ireland and France last year is because the following players didn't have exposure to South African Super Rugby teams?
- Ardie Savea
- Sam Whitelock
- Brodie Retallick
- Nepo Laulala
- Codie Taylor
- Joe Moody
- Dane Coles
- Karl Tu’inukuafe
- Akira Ioane
- Ofa Tuungafasi
Yeah, nah.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
Yeah, nah.
Yeah, yeah. It's contributory for me; note the main reason but a factor. SA absence lets our forwards be less physical week to week. That makes it harder to lift when you need to. I keep sheeting home that there is a clear link between the quality of the domestic comp (Super) and the performance at International Level.
So, it's not the reason, but it's a factor in the reason.
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@nzzp Yeah, all those players listed forgot what combative forward play was. Experience you only get playing shit South African Super Rugby sides. New Zealand Super Rugby teams beating up on each other has lower intensity according to those who play.
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This AB seems to think its hard physically to play against SA.
[link text](link url)https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/whitelock-want-play-sa-teams-super-rugby/ -
And our wonderful AB coach thinks so as well
[link text](link url)https://www.planetrugby.com/super-rugby-misses-south-african-teams-all-blacks-coach-ian-foster/
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I too miss the Saffas, always liked having them in the comp, never understood why many were happy to see them leave. It's not good for the balance of rugby worldwide.
And in this era of streaming the timezone isn't an issue from a spectator point of view, like @Stargazer notes it's good to be able to get up in the morning and watch a match. I do that moist Sundays with whatever rugby was overnight on Stan (6 Nations, UK/Fr/Japan matches/one of the Oz matches).
And I think regardless of the results in the W/L columns the Saffas provided the comp with a different style. I'm not one who believes we need to emulate that style, nor the current NH style, I think if we start doing that we're in more trouble, but I think it was good to play against it.
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@nepia said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
I too miss the Saffas, always liked having them in the comp, never understood why many were happy to see them leave. It's not good for the balance of rugby worldwide.
And in this era of streaming the timezone isn't an issue from a spectator point of view, like @Stargazer notes it's good to be able to get up in the morning and watch a match. I do that moist Sundays with whatever rugby was overnight on Stan (6 Nations, UK/Fr/Japan matches/one of the Oz matches).
And I think regardless of the results in the W/L columns the Saffas provided the comp with a different style. I'm not one who believes we need to emulate that style, nor the current NH style, I think if we start doing that we're in more trouble, but I think it was good to play against it.
"moist Sundays"? TMI
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@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
This AB seems to think its hard physically to play against SA.
[link text](link url)https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/whitelock-want-play-sa-teams-super-rugby/HIs career:
Perhaps he misses winning and touring.
I see two disparate arguments in this thread:
- The reason we lost to Ireland and France is because we don't play South Africans in Super Rugby.
- I miss them in the competition.
I've said previously that South Africans played limited direct rugby because of their skillset. It was the only option available to them and they routinely lost. Their comparative size in the modern era is also a myth. The All Blacks I listed previously all have considerable experience playing South Africans so I find it difficult to accept the argument we're not used to physical rugby. Especially after everyone complained about the physicality of playing New Zealand sides week after week in Super Rugby Aotearoa.
Then there's the little problem with the wildly disparate ways both Ireland and France play.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
This AB seems to think its hard physically to play against SA.
[link text](link url)https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/whitelock-want-play-sa-teams-super-rugby/HIs career:
Perhaps he misses winning and touring.
I see two disparate arguments in this thread:
- The reason we lost to Ireland and France is because we don't play South Africans in Super Rugby.
- I miss them in the competition.
I've said previously that South Africans played limited direct rugby because of their skillset. It was the only option available to them and they routinely lost. Their comparative size in the modern era is also a myth. The All Blacks I listed previously all have considerable experience playing South Africans so I find it difficult to accept the argument we're not used to physical rugby. Especially after everyone complained about the physicality of playing New Zealand sides week after week in Super Rugby Aotearoa.
Then there's the little problem with the wildly disparate ways both Ireland and France play.
Not my argument I believe SA teams bring a point of difference in how they play.That adds to the players adapting to different ways of playing.
Diversity is great in sports it makes players grow instead of the same old ways.Even you must agree SR is weakening it is softer, weaker defense.
Lack of adaptability,Players are not thinking on their feet enough to different scenarios.
Playing teams with different patterns and game plans must be a learning experience.
Or are the AB's so great we don't need that.Nah that argument speaks for itself. -
@chris you're having your own argument.
IMO Super Rugby isn't the best competition because of expansion and flight of players to NH competitions. Towelling South African sides because their best players are in Europe isn't going to help us one iota.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris you're having your own argument.
IMO Super Rugby isn't the best competition because of expansion and flight of players to NH competitions. Towelling South African sides because their best players are in Europe isn't going to help us one iota.
We have different opinions then.
Let’s just carry on as is then.And see we’re it all ends up.Because SA teams are never coming back
They will stay in the worlds strongest comp in Europe. -
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@chris how does that get fixed though if they dont come back? We just have to deal with what we have, just need to be smarter with our selections and game plans.
It leaves us with SA in TRC to adapt to.
Argies are still there, but with MP & Drua, how long before the pressure is on to include a Pacific team too.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
This AB seems to think its hard physically to play against SA.
[link text](link url)https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/whitelock-want-play-sa-teams-super-rugby/HIs career:
Perhaps he misses winning and touring.
I see two disparate arguments in this thread:
- The reason we lost to Ireland and France is because we don't play South Africans in Super Rugby.
- I miss them in the competition.
I've said previously that South Africans played limited direct rugby because of their skillset. It was the only option available to them and they routinely lost. Their comparative size in the modern era is also a myth. The All Blacks I listed previously all have considerable experience playing South Africans so I find it difficult to accept the argument we're not used to physical rugby. Especially after everyone complained about the physicality of playing New Zealand sides week after week in Super Rugby Aotearoa.
Then there's the little problem with the wildly disparate ways both Ireland and France play.
That is pretty damning stuff, thanks for educating this lot again. fucking clueless eh.
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris how does that get fixed though if they dont come back? We just have to deal with what we have, just need to be smarter with our selections and game plans.
It leaves us with SA in TRC to adapt to.
Argies are still there, but with MP & Drua, how long before the pressure is on to include a Pacific team too.
NZR have fucked that as well.
Appointing Foster and reappointing him is proof.
I dont know where we go now,the balance of power is going more and more to the NH. -
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
This AB seems to think its hard physically to play against SA.
[link text](link url)https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/whitelock-want-play-sa-teams-super-rugby/HIs career:
Perhaps he misses winning and touring.
I see two disparate arguments in this thread:
- The reason we lost to Ireland and France is because we don't play South Africans in Super Rugby.
- I miss them in the competition.
I've said previously that South Africans played limited direct rugby because of their skillset. It was the only option available to them and they routinely lost. Their comparative size in the modern era is also a myth. The All Blacks I listed previously all have considerable experience playing South Africans so I find it difficult to accept the argument we're not used to physical rugby. Especially after everyone complained about the physicality of playing New Zealand sides week after week in Super Rugby Aotearoa.
Then there's the little problem with the wildly disparate ways both Ireland and France play.
That is pretty damning stuff, thanks for educating this lot again. fucking clueless eh.
Damming in what way so the Crusaders won against the SA teams,their win ratio etc is high against every team.
On that argument throw the Blues out of SR then,
They haven’t beaten the Crusaders since 2014 lost their last year10 games against the Crusaders.Same argument then the Blues can’t beat the Crusaders biff them out of the Comp.
The stats above don’t tell fuck all.
Stats can be bent anyway you want they don’t tell the true story of everything. -
@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
And our wonderful AB coach thinks so as well
[link text](link url)https://www.planetrugby.com/super-rugby-misses-south-african-teams-all-blacks-coach-ian-foster/
What would he know?
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@booboo said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
@chris said in Super Rugby missing the Saffas?:
And our wonderful AB coach thinks so as well
[link text](link url)https://www.planetrugby.com/super-rugby-misses-south-african-teams-all-blacks-coach-ian-foster/
What would he know?
Fuck all, that was added for Sarcasm. As you would have known.
