-
@antipodean how long is it going to be, before some boy tries to enrol at a Girls School, or a Girl at an all Boys one and the media jump all over it claiming sexism/genderism/whatthefuckeverism
THE.WORLD.BE.FUCKEDED
-
@taniwharugby said in Stupid shit you see on the internet:
@antipodean how long is it going to be, before some boy tries to enrol at a Girls School, or a Girl at an all Boys one and the media jump all over it claiming sexism/genderism/whatthefuckeverism
THE.WORLD.BE.FUCKEDED
A locals girls school (prep / private) has a student who wants to dress as a boy & be referred to as a boy.
My neighbours daughter goes there and she thinks it's not a big deal at all - basically just part of the way people are. Which is nice for trans people. The parents, on the whole, are very supportive of the situation as well. At least they were until one parent asked "ok, but what happens when a boy who wants to be a girl wants to enrol there" which apparently has changed peoples views somewhat ...
-
-
@booboo said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Going to suggest we split the non-sport Trans debate out of the sports talk stuff.
Because I think there are different issues at play.
And if I sober up any time soon I shall do it. If any if you other mods see an opportunity and have the time ...
It's all related and leads to the completely absurd situations like males competing in female sports. We've got to stop shoving this absolute garbage down kids throats.
-
@taniwharugby said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@antipodean how long is it going to be, before some boy tries to enrol at a Girls School, or a Girl at an all Boys one and the media jump all over it claiming sexism/genderism/whatthefuckeverism
THE.WORLD.BE.FUCKEDED
To be fair, we had a girl enrolled in our 6th form class at Whangarei Boys'. In 1976. Nobody died.
-
@no-quarter said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@booboo said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
Going to suggest we split the non-sport Trans debate out of the sports talk stuff.
Because I think there are different issues at play.
And if I sober up any time soon I shall do it. If any if you other mods see an opportunity and have the time ...
It's all related and leads to the completely absurd situations like males competing in female sports. We've got to stop shoving this absolute garbage down kids throats.
Kids don't usually care, and for under 12s, sports are generally not able to be separated by gender anyway (by law - S49 of the Human Rights Act) so it doesn't really come up (and legally can't). I don't want to get into the legal niceties around additional gendered events as a means of encouraging participation, but the general reasons behind that legal restriction is that gender/sex don't have a serious impact on sports for under 12s (there will no doubt be examples to the contrary, but that's where the line was drawn as a balance between inclusivity and safety).
For all the hypotheticals, can anyone point to a NZ-specific example of high school sports where it ever actually happened and the trans girl was the new clear best? Usually the complaints are that girls can't play in the boys competition which means they can't play at all since there is no girls competition, but maybe there are some examples somewhere of trans girls ruining competitions.
There are also trans boys and men overseas who have to compete in women's divisions etc because of these types of laws, which doesn't seem to work out that well either.
Also, what's Parliament's interest in legislating this? From their perspective, in terms of sports legislation currently active, the main thing they care about is participation in physically active sports and recreation which goes back to the benefits like cost savings to the health system from lifelong physical activity. If it was purely about things like competition and results, the legislation and funding priorities would be different. With that in mind, why would or should Parliament get involved?
-
@Godder I'm obviously not talking about under 12s before puberty hits where there is little difference between boys & girls. Although if you convince a boy that is gender a-typical that he is actually a girl then that could become a problem when he hits his teenage years if he wants to compete as a girl.
I'm also not sure where you're going with government legislation? The only rule we need is that you can only compete in the category that matches your biological sex. It really that simple, someone's gender identity doesn't change their biology.
Also, it's not about trans women ruining women's sport, although that is starting to happen around the world. It's about protecting female only categories to make it fair. There's almost no overlap between men and women when it comes to physical attributes - an 80kg male will almost always be stronger than an 80kg female. A top male athlete will always be stronger than a top female athlete. So you get a male that is ranked way outside the top echelon in male sports suddenly go near the top when they start competing in female sports - that's just not fair to all of the female competitors.
And the wider issue is this whole trans movement is hyper focussed on stereotypical ideas of how men and women behave, which almost nobody fits into perfectly. Constantly focussing on these stereotypes is not good for children, we need to let kids be kids and not encourage them to put labels on themselves based on their interests and behaviours. It's little wonder so many are deciding they are gender neutral given how few people actually fit into the male/female stereotypes.
It's hard enough growing up in such an interconnected world as it is, we need to stop fucking with kids mental health with toxic shit like this.
-
Did we ever stop to consider that the people who are advocating that trans women should be able to compete may actually despise competitive sport? I’d be interested in the intersection between them and the people who have been steering us towards versions of sports that don’t have winners and losers. Maybe they simply don’t care if it destroys women’s sports because that’s kinda their goal?
-
@jc possibly a poor example but it reminds me of pro-life folks that promote options like adoption, but have no interest in adopting kids themselves. We don't want to be involved but we have a VERY strong opinion on what should happen.
-
@paekakboyz I was somewhat bemused hearing the Greens pro-choice re gender or binary or whatever, yet they have sat back quietly with the Vaccine mandates...good to be able to pick and choose when you should give people a choice I guess.
-
@taniwharugby I guess their position is that one is innate (ie born that way... or not!) and the other is a different type of autonomy question about your body and what you can be 'made' to do to it. But it gets murky pretty quickly aye.
-
@godder That’s based on a false premise, i.e. that there if there is an obligation to legislate it is to define what a trans athlete is so that they can compete. It ignores that there is another legislation option. You can legislate to protect natal women’s sport and trans athletes become just another class who are shut out, along with us uncos and geriatrics.
It’s perfectly possible to legislate on the basis the you need to provide the best outcome for the greatest number of people, which at the end of the day is what underpins the concept of democracy.
-
Didn’t know where to put this
Please move / delete as appropriate
First gender neutral music awards, Brits 2022
-
@mikethesnow I'm not sure if the female-fronted bit is trolling or a woosh 😁
-
and in completely co-incidental news ... As awards shows move woke ... audiences are plummeting.
I didn't know even know it was on. Or, honestly, care.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/feb/04/and-the-loser-is-are-music-awards-shows-in-crisis
-
@jc said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@godder That’s based on a false premise, i.e. that there if there is an obligation to legislate it is to define what a trans athlete is so that they can compete. It ignores that there is another legislation option. You can legislate to protect natal women’s sport and trans athletes become just another class who are shut out, along with us uncos and geriatrics.
It’s perfectly possible to legislate on the basis the you need to provide the best outcome for the greatest number of people, which at the end of the day is what underpins the concept of democracy.
Under NZ law, we've already done that - transmen are men and transwomen are women (particularly if their legal ID says that) and the onus is on the sport (or whatever activity) to show why that doesn't apply.
-
@jc said in Trans in sport / Laurel Hubbard:
@godder Ah well, we reap what we sow I guess.
A legal paper on the subject and related matters.
This is from Auckland University slightly before the most recent law change on gender ID, although it probably doesn't affect the paper much. It gives some food for thought for sports, particularly at the competitive/elite level.
Not really covered in there, but something I would say from an administrative standpoint as someone who has been involved in national selection for international competitions and sports administration generally, if someone turns up with ID with their gender/sex on it, it's very difficult to make a case that they aren't the gender/sex on the ID.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general