Ross Taylor retires
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@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
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@paekakboyz said in Ross Taylor retires:
However the push/pull worked out I'm glad there is a plan rather than things ending abruptly. I hope he goes out on a high!
The Dutch are uniquely placed to ensure that happens one way or another.
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@arhs said in Ross Taylor retires:
KW, Crowe and Taylor would make ANY Black Caps all time 3-5 as an example. No one else would come close.
I think Bert Sutcliffe and Martin Donnelly would have compelling cases for consideration based on their contributions in times with little class around them. But Taylor is well in that conversation also.
Taylor has class AND longevity though
Except for the first 30 balls of his innings where he’s like a nervous nelly and his feet are all over the show 😉
Thanks for the memories Ross, so many great innings - 150 against India, 290 vs OZ
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@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
Oh all right.
If Bev Congdon had taken up cricket as a professional instead of school teaching, he would have been as good as or better than Rosco.... 🎣
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@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
Oh all right.
If Bev Congdon had taken up cricket as a professional instead of school teaching, he would have been as good as or better than Rosco.... 🎣
Massive respect for ANYONE who plays sport for their country. Even what we consider shit Black Caps ( and let’s be honest there’s been loads ) still had to shine at first class level to get there in the first place. You have to admire them for paving the way for todays guys too. We might scoff and point out they’re no chance of an all time team compared to the newer guys but they were still a damn sight better than any of us.
Rossco was never quite one of the absolute elite of his time, not quite as good as the big four, or guys earlier in his era like Chanderpaul, AB De Villiers, Pietersen, Sangakara or Jayawardene……but I guarantee there wasn’t one international squad that he wouldn’t have made at a canter batting four or five…..I think all things considered he sits third in the list of best ever NZ test batsmen, behind KW and Crowe but ahead of…..well everyone else. To maintain a very, very good record like that over a long period of time is exceptional.
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Grumpy Old Man cricket post as I was trawling cricinfo for batsmen to compare Rossco to…….
KW debuts two years BEFORE Joe Root.
Both the best batsmen of their team, I get that ( although KW is better )…..however our boy has played 86 tests vs Root who has played 112.
Fuck you International cricket board for CONTINUALLY treating us like minnows/warm ups and never granting five test series.
Instead of being progressive and dynamic enjoy watching your team get pumped in the next two tests across the ditch
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
Oh all right.
If Bev Congdon had taken up cricket as a professional instead of school teaching, he would have been as good as or better than Rosco.... 🎣
Massive respect for ANYONE who plays sport for their country. Even what we consider shit Black Caps ( and let’s be honest there’s been loads ) still had to shine at first class level to get there in the first place. You have to admire them for paving the way for todays guys too. We might scoff and point out they’re no chance of an all time team compared to the newer guys but they were still a damn sight better than any of us.
Rossco was never quite one of the absolute elite of his time, not quite as good as the big four, or guys earlier in his era like Chanderpaul, AB De Villiers, Pietersen, Sangakara or Jayawardene……but I guarantee there wasn’t one international squad that he wouldn’t have made at a canter batting four or five…..I think all things considered he sits third in the list of best ever NZ test batsmen, behind KW and Crowe but ahead of…..well everyone else. To maintain a very, very good record like that over a long period of time is exceptional.
Agree for tests, elite ODI player though. Kane should pass him given long enough, but Taylor has a higher average and strike rate.
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@godder said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
Oh all right.
If Bev Congdon had taken up cricket as a professional instead of school teaching, he would have been as good as or better than Rosco.... 🎣
Massive respect for ANYONE who plays sport for their country. Even what we consider shit Black Caps ( and let’s be honest there’s been loads ) still had to shine at first class level to get there in the first place. You have to admire them for paving the way for todays guys too. We might scoff and point out they’re no chance of an all time team compared to the newer guys but they were still a damn sight better than any of us.
Rossco was never quite one of the absolute elite of his time, not quite as good as the big four, or guys earlier in his era like Chanderpaul, AB De Villiers, Pietersen, Sangakara or Jayawardene……but I guarantee there wasn’t one international squad that he wouldn’t have made at a canter batting four or five…..I think all things considered he sits third in the list of best ever NZ test batsmen, behind KW and Crowe but ahead of…..well everyone else. To maintain a very, very good record like that over a long period of time is exceptional.
Agree for tests, elite ODI player though. Kane should pass him given long enough, but Taylor has a higher average and strike rate.
Haha, I never even mentioned his ODI prowess which, yes, eclipses even his very impressive test record. That probably says more about me than anything though. I’m a traditionalist. That’s why Steve should get first pick of the meat at Xmas day over Mark despite the latter scoring 18 ODI tons to 3…….
It’s worth noting that Rossco averages more in ODIs than Tendulkar, Dravid ( I can hear the fuck you bloodys from here ), Kallis, Lara, Sangakkara and any number of other past and present greats.
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Very, very few old timers had great records, they were the epitome of plucky triers. Not much more.
I think a fair few would be pushing had they had the opportunity to go pro like today's players. John Wright generally gets the nod to partner Turner as opener in an All Time XI, but Bert Sutcliffe had a better batting average - as an amateur.
Maybe…..but in a way that’s like saying I’d be in the conversation if I was a much better player
Or had better opportunities than Sutcliffe etc?
I think a better comparison for the last 15-20 years for players like Rosco is between professionals like John Parker, Geoff Howarth etc - they were way, way better players.
Than Rossco? What the fuck ? Clearly you had a great NYs eve cos you’re still pissed.
Nah, I'm saying Rosco, Watling etc were way better players than other professionals like Howarth etc
That’s disappointing. I really wanted to argue and make my point.
Oh all right.
If Bev Congdon had taken up cricket as a professional instead of school teaching, he would have been as good as or better than Rosco.... 🎣
Massive respect for ANYONE who plays sport for their country. Even what we consider shit Black Caps ( and let’s be honest there’s been loads ) still had to shine at first class level to get there in the first place. You have to admire them for paving the way for todays guys too.
The 70's was a great time for NZ cricket fans compared to what went before. Sure, there were exceptions before like Sutcliffe & John Reid, but we started to consistently produce a number of players who could challenge the worlds's best (even if they were amateur or semi-pro) and NZ stopped being cannon-fodder at Test level.
Rossco was never quite one of the absolute elite of his time, not quite as good as the big four, or guys earlier in his era like Chanderpaul, AB De Villiers, Pietersen, Sangakara or Jayawardene……but I guarantee there wasn’t one international squad that he wouldn’t have made at a canter batting four or five…..I think all things considered he sits third in the list of best ever NZ test batsmen, behind KW and Crowe but ahead of…..well everyone else. To maintain a very, very good record like that over a long period of time is exceptional.
Seems to me he's a bit like Tim Henman to British Tennis - and I mean that as a high compliment. Never quite no.1 but always in the top 5-10 for years, carried his country on his own shoulders for plenty of his career and was, and is, a huge inspiration for the players who followed in his footsteps
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@victor-meldrew said in Ross Taylor retires:
Seems to me he's a bit like Tim Henman to British Tennis - and I mean that as a high compliment. Never quite no.1 but always in the top 5-10 for years, carried his country on his own shoulders for plenty of his career and was, and is, a huge inspiration for the players who followed in his footsteps
That's a bit harsh. Henman never won anything. Rossco is a World Test Champion, having anchored the chase in the final session and hit the winning runs.
My 2021 sporting highlight for sure.
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@tewaio said in Ross Taylor retires:
That's a bit harsh. Henman never won anything.
It's meant to be the opposite of harsh. And, like Henman, I suspect Rosco's legacy will be more than simply runs scored & cups won.
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@chris-b said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Grumpy Old Man cricket post as I was trawling cricinfo for batsmen to compare Rossco to…….
Hashim Amla wouldn't be a bad comparison.
Not quite the best batsman in the team, but a great record.
Absolutely. It’s just with our chequered history Taylor would be in any other era, Amla would too if Kallis didn’t exist. VVS Laxman, Justin Langer, Mark Waugh, David Gower, Michael Clarke, Michael Hussey and Ian Bell are others of that ilk who spring to mind. All very good ( and some personal favourites of mine there too ) but just short of that top echelon.
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@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@chris-b said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Grumpy Old Man cricket post as I was trawling cricinfo for batsmen to compare Rossco to…….
Hashim Amla wouldn't be a bad comparison.
Not quite the best batsman in the team, but a great record.
Absolutely. It’s just with our chequered history Taylor would be in any other era, Amla would too if Kallis didn’t exist. VVS Laxman, Justin Langer, Mark Waugh, David Gower, Michael Clarke, Michael Hussey and Ian Bell are others of that ilk who spring to mind. All very good ( and some personal favourites of mine there too ) but just short of that top echelon.
To me he goes on a tier with several of those like Pietersen, Gayle, Sehwag, Inzamam etc. They all transcended recurring technical flaws throughout their career to fashion impressive test and white ball records and at their best were as good as anyone of their era at test level.
None you could reliably anchor a test batting order around like Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting or even Kane.
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@rotated said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
@chris-b said in Ross Taylor retires:
@mn5 said in Ross Taylor retires:
Grumpy Old Man cricket post as I was trawling cricinfo for batsmen to compare Rossco to…….
Hashim Amla wouldn't be a bad comparison.
Not quite the best batsman in the team, but a great record.
Absolutely. It’s just with our chequered history Taylor would be in any other era, Amla would too if Kallis didn’t exist. VVS Laxman, Justin Langer, Mark Waugh, David Gower, Michael Clarke, Michael Hussey and Ian Bell are others of that ilk who spring to mind. All very good ( and some personal favourites of mine there too ) but just short of that top echelon.
To me he goes on a tier with several of those like Pietersen, Gayle, Sehwag, Inzamam etc. They all transcended some pretty clear technical flaws throughout their career to fashion impressive test and white ball legacies and at their best were as good as anyone of their era at test level.
None you could reliably anchor a test batting order around like Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting or even Kane.
Pietersen to me should have been in the very upper echelon but yeah he probably slots in here. His career faded a bit and being the stickler for stats that I am he finished up averaging 47, not 50 as he was for a lot of his career. One of THE best guys to watch when on form though. Just beautiful for a lanky tall guy ( when you consider most great batsmen are little )…..and the best batsman in the team til Root emerged.
Gayle was a massive hitter obviously but he could knuckle down and an average of 42 is good when you consider fuck all guys managed 50 opening for obvious reasons.
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Without Kane as a current comparison, we'd be lauding Ross as arguably the greatest international batsman NZ has ever produced, at least on the numbers. Obviously Crowe and Turner (to name 2) were legitimately world class in their eras, but Ross has NZ records for:
- most international runs
- most test and ODI runs
- most international centuries
- most ODI centuries
- most international 50s and 50+
- most ODI 50s and 50+
- most international catches other than by a keeper
- most international appearances
- only player (for any country) to play 100 internationals in tests, ODIs and T20s
Some of that is longevity, a lot of it is class.
