Coronavirus - New Zealand
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Hone up to his usual tricks again. I am no fan of Shane Jones. But his answer to those Maori scared of covid19? "Get vaccinated". 👍
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@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
Own worst enemy
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about". -
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
It can be really baffling when you hear things like that. I hope that if they are in an accident they convey that deep distrust to the paramedics.
"oh, I'm sorry shall I leave you in the wreckage then? Shall I call someone to collect your body?"I'm being facetious I know but everything has a limit or a tipping point. The key is aligning it.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
It can be really baffling when you hear things like that. I hope that if they are in an accident they convey that deep distrust to the paramedics.
"oh, I'm sorry shall I leave you in the wreckage then? Shall I call someone to collect your body?"I'm being facetious I know but everything has a limit or a tipping point. The key is aligning it.
I'd suggest the "key" is not holding up an entire country for any laggard, regardless of their reasons. Go to reasonable efforts to give everyone the chance, then move the fuck on with or without them.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
It can be really baffling when you hear things like that. I hope that if they are in an accident they convey that deep distrust to the paramedics.
"oh, I'm sorry shall I leave you in the wreckage then? Shall I call someone to collect your body?"I'm being facetious I know but everything has a limit or a tipping point. The key is aligning it.
I'd suggest the "key" is not holding up an entire country for any laggard, regardless of their reasons. Go to reasonable efforts to give everyone the chance, then move the fuck on with or without them.
"Reasonable efforts" is the bit that is the debate.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.
Many more will 'get there'.Dude Corona has been around for how long?
People have been dying for how long?
Quit being an apologist,
These lockdowns are fucking over the country. -
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.
Many more will 'get there'.Dude Corona has been around for how long?
People have been dying for how long?
Quit being an apologist,
These lockdowns are fucking over the country.Yep it's all my fault.
@taniwharugby 's opinion was that he thought rates had stalled, I'm just saying that maybe they will slowly keep going up. Not quite sure how that is being a govt apologist but feel free to take out your frustrations on me.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.
Many more will 'get there'.Dude Corona has been around for how long?
People have been dying for how long?
Quit being an apologist,
These lockdowns are fucking over the country.Yep it's all my fault.
@taniwharugby 's opinion was that he thought rates had stalled, I'm just saying that maybe they will slowly keep going up. Not quite sure how that is being a govt apologist but feel free to take out your frustrations on me.
Huh? Never said it was your fault.
Stop trying to make excuses for not enough Maori being vaccinated.
You're a cultural apologist.
As I said, we are long past excuse time. -
@crucial didnt say they were stalled, just said they arent gonna get upto the numbers needed.
Numbers are still ticking up, but not enough, might capture a few more with another vaccine option, but again, wont be enough to drive the numbers up here and I expect further north is where the real problem lies.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
It can be really baffling when you hear things like that. I hope that if they are in an accident they convey that deep distrust to the paramedics.
"oh, I'm sorry shall I leave you in the wreckage then? Shall I call someone to collect your body?"I'm being facetious I know but everything has a limit or a tipping point. The key is aligning it.
People exercise considerable mental gymnastics to accept the white man's health care they want and to refuse the stuff they don't
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan tbf Hone is/has been pushing for vaccinations, problem is I think they are as far down the path as they will get given how long.the Vax push has been going, with the focus on Maori rates too.
They need to realise no amount of pressure and door knocking will get the numbers up significantly, all they are doing is holding on to a false hope that they can get the required numbers.
Let's not forget, some of those unvaxxed won't play by the traffic light restrictions where they can get away with it too.
I think that is a little pessimistic. It's a generalisation quite obviously but the Maori way is not to rush into things. That doesn't mean that people won't do something just that they will do it when they are ready and sometimes it takes a while to get to that state.
There are processes of consensus thinking in many matters and that is sometimes why 'instructions' are baulked at.
It is definitely a cultural difference that people have been trying to understand how to work within for some time and one of the reasons why the initial vax programme didn't work so well and Maori leaders called for the process to be handed to them.Many more will 'get there'.
Tiny sample size I know, but my bro in laws family live in the sticks 40 minutes from Paihia. The whole whanau have no intention of getting vaxxed. And my bro in law is a doctor and he can't convince them! Not an isolated situation I suspect
No, not at all and I can see why if they can't see a direct impact.
There have been studies and trials of using a system of 'consensus cards' to help with group thinking (without being leading). It kind of words by getting people to put down thoughts both positive and negative as individuals then shuffling and redistributing those thoughts and doing the process again. If people see that maybe they share a similar concern or see a similar solution then you work from that point. It's quite interesting.
Using your group as an example they may mostly share a concern that a visitor brings Covid to them or question the effectiveness of masks when they go to town. Their reasons for not vaccinating could also be shared (or be different) and they can be addressed singly without the cycles of "but what about".They have a deep mistrust of the medical system, and don't see any good from it. Bloody tough to fight that
It can be really baffling when you hear things like that. I hope that if they are in an accident they convey that deep distrust to the paramedics.
"oh, I'm sorry shall I leave you in the wreckage then? Shall I call someone to collect your body?"I'm being facetious I know but everything has a limit or a tipping point. The key is aligning it.
People exercise considerable mental gymnastics to accept the white man's health care they want and to refuse the stuff they don't
It never ceases to amaze me that this would still be a sticking point after European colonisation wiped out millions of indigenous people via disease, and we even had something of a more recent example with the 1918 flu pandemic killing Maori at a much higher rate than Pakeha (obviously not colonisation specifically, but as far as we can tell, it appears to have originated either in Europe or the USA). Like, we know we have caused problems with disease, so here we are with some really good vaccines, and just shot down.
Meanwhile, all the Covid orders have appeared at http://www.pco.govt.nz/covid-19-legislation/ for people who like to read the actual orders in addition to relying on the advice from government agencies.