France v Black Ferns 1
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@donsteppa said in France v Black Ferns 1:
Indeed. For all the nice words that get said about the domestic game (women and men)… the state of the Black Ferns and the entirely predictable failings of the All Blacks suggests the NZRU is well overdue for a wake up call.
The NZRU being who they are, it’s probably take them several wake-up calls though…
honestly, take the silver lake deal, pocket the cash and pray that the historic conveyor belt of talent bails them out in both bazza and shazza forms of the game.
Feels like the Blues for a long time - poor administrator quality filters through to the on field performance
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@sparky said in France v Black Ferns 1:
Another grim scoreline for the Black Ferns.
Serious questions need to be asked of the NZR and why the national sides are so poor at the moment.
With the women's side they simply need games. That's what the NH sides get and it shows.
We can't rely on the odd trip across the ditch and three (yes three) games of Super to build an international side.At lower levels as well women simply need more games that matter. It is ridiculously easy to get into some FPC sides and the skill levels show that. A player like Jorja Miller shines out in part because she has been in a position from a young age to get a lot of gametime and looks like she has instincts because of that.
The women game needs investment and proper coaching from the schools up with as many layers as needed to get quality games.
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@sparky said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@crucial Let the Kiwi women go abroad and play in the professional NH competitions.
Will only work for a small group of young players without children. They'd probably have to be single, too, or be prepared to be separated from their partners for the duration of the competition or have to earn a higher salary than their partners for those partners to give up their day jobs and join the players overseas.
It would also ruin the FPC, and possibly even Super Rugby Aupiki, depending on when those overseas' competitions are played.
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@stargazer said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@sparky said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@crucial Let the Kiwi women go abroad and play in the professional NH competitions.
Will only work for a small group of young players without children. They'd probably have to be single, too, or be prepared to be separated from their partners for the duration of the competition or have to earn a higher salary than their partners for those partners to give up their day jobs and join the players overseas.
It would also ruin the FPC, and possibly even Super Rugby Aupiki, depending on when those overseas' competitions are played.
Even just going to the US and playing college rugby on a scholarship would be a bonus as at least you get plenty go games and accumulate playing minutes. Quality levels are better than many get in a school team and preferable to being in a 'development' team at FPC.
Minutes on the field are what our women miss first. Quality minutes next. -
@crucial said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@stargazer said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@sparky said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@crucial Let the Kiwi women go abroad and play in the professional NH competitions.
Will only work for a small group of young players without children. They'd probably have to be single, too, or be prepared to be separated from their partners for the duration of the competition or have to earn a higher salary than their partners for those partners to give up their day jobs and join the players overseas.
It would also ruin the FPC, and possibly even Super Rugby Aupiki, depending on when those overseas' competitions are played.
Even just going to the US and playing college rugby on a scholarship would be a bonus as at least you get plenty go games and accumulate playing minutes. Quality levels are better than many get in a school team and preferable to being in a 'development' team at FPC.
Minutes on the field are what our women miss first. Quality minutes next.Didn't we used to be world #1? It's an indictment that NZR has let it come to this
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@stargazer said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@canefan We lost the no. 1 ranking due to Covid, because England was playing and winning, and the Ferns didn't play a test for over 2 years.
Covid definitely hasn't helped. These NH women seem to be getting more rugby, tougher matches. And it shows
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@canefan There was supposed to be a Super Four Series in June/July 2021 with NZ playing Australia, USA and Canada (who are in the same boat with far too few tests), but it was cancelled due to Covid. I understand it's now planned for 2022, but not yet confirmed by NZR.
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@stargazer said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@canefan There was supposed to be a Super Four Series in June/July 2021 with NZ playing Australia, USA and Canada (who are in the same boat with far too few tests), but it was cancelled due to Covid. I understand it's now planned for 2022, but not yet confirmed by NZR.
Right. So post covid we should be sweet
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Are the Ferns on fully professional contracts?
I don't follow the women's game that closely, but it seems that the English and French have pulled ahead significantly in the last few years, and they now have a decent pool of pro players.
With Wales (and probably Scotland, Ireland, Italy too), apart from a handful who have contracts at English clubs, most of the players have to fit training around their day jobs
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@gibbon-rib No, the Ferns get some payment for the days they are in camp/on tour and/or play tests IIRC. It's not much. They still need full time jobs to survive.
It's better than it was, but insufficient. With SR Aupiki being only 4 matches, that won't solve the problem either.
Edited to add that the Welsh Union has recently announced that a certain number of Welsh players will get professional contracts. Don't know whether this will be at the same level as the English players.
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@stargazer said in France v Black Ferns 1:
@gibbon-rib No, the Ferns get some payment for the days they are in camp/on tour and/or play tests IIRC. It's not much. They still need full time jobs to survive.
It's better than it was, but insufficient. With SR Aupiki being only 4 matches, that won't solve the problem either.
Edited to add that the Welsh Union has recently announced that a certain number of Welsh players will get professional contracts. Don't know whether this will be at the same level as the English players.
Without wishing to defend the NZRU, that's got to be a significant factor - English & French women have probably improved significantly in the last couple of years. I guess for NZ to compete they'll either need to find the money to make the Ferns pro, or players will need to get contracts in the English / French leagues
Yeah, WRU recently announced that 10 women will be getting contracts next year, with some smaller payments for the rest. Haven't seen the numbers, I'll try to dig them up. But I'll be surprised if they're comparable to the English, the WRU mismanages on a tiny budget compared to the RFU
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Have a look at this..
Miles ahead of our women rugby structure. One time that the club structure of England really benefits them. Prem Clubs financing and coaching women's teams with underpinning regional and age group comps.
From what I can see there are 18 rounds plus semis and final in the premiership.
We have a lot of catching up to do.
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Some more info here, article is about Wales but it also mentions other European countries:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59149146
"The contract announcement sees the WRU follow in the footsteps of the Rugby Football Union in England, which awarded some of its 15-a-side female players first professional deals in 2016. Five years on, the Red Roses have 28 contracted players ... [edited to remove offensive content] ... Elsewhere, France are semi-professional, 10 Scotland players have contracts, Ireland get per diems - a set amount of money every day when they play - while Italy get their expenses paid for."
Welsh contracts are described as 10 "full-time deals" plus 15 "retainer contracts. But apparently the "full-time" deals are only worth £19k (retainers are £7.5k), so they'd probably need another job (or family support) to survive. Can't find anything on how much the English women are paid.
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Canada is the level that the ferns are, sadly, when compared to professional England
Cowell leads way as England Women power past Canada for another big win
Heather Cowell scored the first and third of England’s seven tries in the 51-12 win over Canada at the Stoop
Rugby Football Union for Women - Wikipedia
