Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
RNZ understands ministers were due to consider a traffic light-like system New Zealand could move to once the population is highly vaccinated.
It could move the next phase away from using alert level restrictions to a mix of protective measures in the event of outbreaks.
That could include mask use, gathering limits, social distancing, proof of vaccination and scanning.
It could be some months before it would be ready to be implemented.
As with ever other idea to reduce impact, it is hamstrung by the government's lack of capabilities and competence.
It would be typical if they get it going about May so that things kick off as you start to get the cold weather. They should be trying to maximize the spread during summer.
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And here is exactly why its just lunacy to hold an entire country hostage to a small group of uninformed people.
"we choose that option"?? Fucking do you mate???
How about you exercise your right to not get jabbed, I'm OK with that. But the Government should be opening up the country whether you like it or not.
I have long made the distinction that the benchmark for opening up should be x% of people having the opportunity to get the jab. We cannot be restricted because small groups decide not to for whatever reason.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan That’s my take on it too. This is a situation where this government’s best instincts may not serve us well. I think it’s critical to them that they are believed to be good, virtuous people, above all else. They’re in a difficult position and they can’t do the right thing because they want to do the good thing.
They know that if they relax the rules some people will die and many will get sick. And because of their low vaccination rates and higher rates of co-morbidities, a disproportionately large number will likely be Māori.
We can already see from recent new stories that some commentators see the Covid response as having a racist element to it, and if Māori people start getting sick and dying in greater numbers than the non-Māori population it’s inevitable that narrative will gain more credence. That would be difficult for any government but for one which puts such store in their perceived virtue as this one, it would be untenable to be accused of racism.
They have to know that they are in a bad position no matter what happens from here. I think they’d rather choose the option that leaves them looking most virtuous, whatever the cost to the rest of us.
It'll also come at the cost of increased racism towards Māori. It's going to be an absolute shitshow if they make announcements along the lines of "Auckland can't move to level 2 yet because Māori vaccination rates are still too low".
I wonder if the reason why they've been avoiding targets is because they were hoping it would have resolved itself by now.
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Is there anything special about Maori ethnic group which have led to their lower vaccination rates?
If I was leader, I'd use the stick.
In x number of days we end lockdowns and maybe open the border soon after.
If you and you family are not vaccinated and you choose to put them at risk - that's YOUR fault.
If they die because you couldn't be assed getting vaccinated - that's YOUR fault.
Whatever happened to self-responsibility??? -
@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan That’s my take on it too. This is a situation where this government’s best instincts may not serve us well. I think it’s critical to them that they are believed to be good, virtuous people, above all else. They’re in a difficult position and they can’t do the right thing because they want to do the good thing.
They know that if they relax the rules some people will die and many will get sick. And because of their low vaccination rates and higher rates of co-morbidities, a disproportionately large number will likely be Māori.
We can already see from recent new stories that some commentators see the Covid response as having a racist element to it, and if Māori people start getting sick and dying in greater numbers than the non-Māori population it’s inevitable that narrative will gain more credence. That would be difficult for any government but for one which puts such store in their perceived virtue as this one, it would be untenable to be accused of racism.
They have to know that they are in a bad position no matter what happens from here. I think they’d rather choose the option that leaves them looking most virtuous, whatever the cost to the rest of us.
It'll also come at the cost of increased racism towards Māori. It's going to be an absolute shitshow if they make announcements along the lines of "Auckland can't move to level 2 yet because Māori vaccination rates are still too low".
I wonder if the reason why they've been avoiding targets is because they were hoping it would have resolved itself by now.
That was where I was going. Focusing on ethnic groups for this sort of policy will have unintended consequences.
Identify politics is not how to run a country.
It also infantilises a group of people IMO. If a community chooses, despite all available information, to not take the vaccine then the government has done all they can. Like was said above, everyone needs the opportunity.
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Is there anything special about Maori ethnic group which have led to their lower vaccination rates?
If I was leader, I'd use the stick.
In x number of days we end lockdowns and maybe open the border soon after.
If you and you family are not vaccinated and you choose to put them at risk - that's YOUR fault.
If they die because you couldn't be assed getting vaccinated - that's YOUR fault.
Whatever happened to self-responsibility???Personal responsibility? Sensible rationale. But it will never happen. They don't want to leave people behind, least of all Maori
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In regard to Maori, one common theme the past weeks/months is that they need to take the vaccine to them, static jab stations won't get the desired reach.
Many rural and isolated communities simply will not travel to get vaccinated, sure some will be lazy and apathetic, but some will also want to get it but simply can't afford the petrol to drive 30+ minutes to get jabbed.
Plus, taking Maori health advocates out to these communities will get more people jabbed and maybe even manage to identify the odd other health issue that would otherwise go undiagnosed.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
In regard to Maori, one common theme the past weeks/months is that they need to take the vaccine to them, static jab stations won't get the desired reach.
Many rural and isolated communities simply will not travel to get vaccinated, sure some will be lazy and apathetic, but some will also want to get it **but simply can't afford the petrol to drive 30+ minutes to get jabbed.
**
Plus, taking Maori health advocates out to these communities will get more people jabbed and maybe even manage to identify the odd other health issue that would otherwise go undiagnosed.Prices are ridiculous at the moment and due to get worse. I’m so fucken thankful I have a fuel card but it’s very sad that this is a genuine financial burden for some people.
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@mn5 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Prices are ridiculous at the moment and due to get worse. I’m so fucken thankful I have a fuel card but it’s very sad that this is a genuine financial burden for some people.
Inflation hasn't been part of our life for so long people seem to have forgotten what it does. It's brutal, particularly for low income earners. It can destroy an economy... I see Venezuela just dropped six zeros off their currency ... makes accounting easier, but damn! Economies matter, and we can wreck them with bad policies and good intentions.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
In regard to Maori, one common theme the past weeks/months is that they need to take the vaccine to them, static jab stations won't get the desired reach.
Many rural and isolated communities simply will not travel to get vaccinated, sure some will be lazy and apathetic, but some will also want to get it but simply can't afford the petrol to drive 30+ minutes to get jabbed.
Plus, taking Maori health advocates out to these communities will get more people jabbed and maybe even manage to identify the odd other health issue that would otherwise go undiagnosed.
The simple answer is go out there and give it to them. But with so many urbanised Maori I wonder how significant the distance as a hurdle problem, in terms of actual population numbers is
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@canefan Is it that simple though? Did you see this? The kaumatua in Murupara are saying that as a community they have made a conscious decision not to get vaccinated because they are waiting for a better one. I’m sorry but this is simply ignorance and it’s being indulged by the government n and the DOH at the expense of fully vaccinated Aucklanders who can’t live their lives.
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I think with a lot of the Maori communities there is a pretty deep distrust of the government which is feeding into their reluctance to get vaccinated.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc easy solution.
Lockdown Murupara.
Will anybody notice?
The P trade?
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Is it that simple though? Did you see this? The kaumatua in Murupara are saying that as a community they have made a conscious decision not to get vaccinated because they are waiting for a better one. I’m sorry but this is simply ignorance and it’s being indulged by the government n and the DOH at the expense of fully vaccinated Aucklanders who can’t live their lives.
I had a more violent reaction to that article, as I posted above. You're right in that it is ignorance - but it is also utter arrogance. The idea that this community gets to select the best vaccine (in their educated view) globally, then demand the Govt procure, fund, deliver, and administer said vaccine to them, is absolutely outrageous.
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@voodoo unfortunately every day we see stuff about how the Maori are being left behind and will suffer as a consequence, yet you have community leaders like the one in that article hindering any good work in other areas, and likely influencing others outside his community too...I bet if he, like Hone Harawira and others of similar standing in Maori communities were actively promoting vaccinations in these smaller communities, with mobile vaccinations units and Maori Health advocates, the reach would be greater.
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We're going to be locked down forever (sorry if it's a re-post)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300431939/covid19-what-the-everchanging-icu-bed-numbers-tell-us -
@taniwharugby TBF to Hone Harawira I have heard him on the radio many times urging Maori to go out and get vaccinated +++++++++.
OI also heard an interesting interview this morning with a PI health provider from south Auckland bemoaning the lack of dialogue with the government. He argued that the quarantine at home plan won't work in South Auckland where you might have 12 adults in a 3 bedroom home and that it will streatch already very busy local health resources by providing a Covid incubator.He didn't play the race card butr did say that he thought Wellington was out of touch with the reality in Akl and aren't engaging with the people working amongst Covid.
He asked why the mooted programme was launched by Minister alongside a GP from Karori and suggested this was indicative of the Govt's insularity.
All good points IMO.
To balance that there was also a piece by epidemiologist Rod Jackson saying the govt's traffic light system is the wrong step. He wasn't arguing against opening up but said next year was going to be very difficult because there were going to be half a million unvaxed and Covid was going to spread through that population quickly.
He said for the overwhelming majority of double vaxed Covid will be like a booster vaccine shot, might fe4el a bit ropey for a couple of days but then you will have even more immunity but that based on overseas experience 10% of the unvaxed will need hospitilisation and that a rigid system will not be able to spread this out. He believes next year is all about balancing the case load so hospitals don't get overwhelmed and that we therefore need a more nuanced and agile approach citing Singapore as a exemplar in the way they have prevented a peak demands post opening up.