Too horrific for words - Moko Rangitoheriri case
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578067" data-time="1462694775">
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<p>Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.</p>
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<p>Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p>
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<p>Apparently they pleaded guilty to manslaughter rather than stand trial for murder. Weak I know.</p>
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<p>Theres been a new approach to trying to stop the cycle these ferals are in , obviously its going to take a while to see the results <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/from-new-zealand-to-pittsburgh-a-moneyball-approach-to-helping-troubled-kids'>http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/from-new-zealand-to-pittsburgh-a-moneyball-approach-to-helping-troubled-kids</a></p> -
<p>That is a good initiative. Thanks for the link jegga.</p>
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<p>I guess it comes back to how and why the original systems were set up e.g. the dole was for people who were struggling to get work, but years ago it was just not cool to be on the dole, so you'd find work as soon as possible to get away from the stigma.</p>
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<p>Once it becomes generational welfare, its seen as a way of life. Kids aren't given anything else to aspire to.</p>
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<p>In our two countries, where education is still relatively cheap, its a shorter path to break that cycle for individuals, but at a societal level will take a long time as you say. </p>
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<p>In certain demographics in the US - particularly black communities - it must look fucking impossible.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578067" data-time="1462694775"><p>
Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.<br><br>
Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p></blockquote>
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Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.<br><br>
That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them... -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="578122" data-time="1462737549"><p>
Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.<br><br>
That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...</p></blockquote>
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It'd be quite nice if they were foolish enough to appeal their sentence and has happened recently got their terms extended . -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="578122" data-time="1462737549">
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<p>Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.<br><br>
That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...</p>
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<p>Yeah, I don't profess to have a good understanding of the Law. Things like this appear outrageous on face value but the Judge is working within the Laws that were created by the Government. If there is a loophole, then it is the Government that needs to close it.</p>
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<p>What you say about this case makes perfect sense, as infuriating as that is.</p> -
<p>Going slightly off topic here but still on domestic violence I see Tony Veitch has raised hackles again.</p>
<p>He quite probably had good intentions in writing a piece for the Herald about his own experience as a perp but the whole time I was reading it I was thinking that for all of his supposed counseling etc no one seems to have got through to him that he needs to be more concerned about the victim than himself. I see that he needs to look at himself etc but he never once apologises to or mentions his victim. There are lots of I's and my's in his statement.</p>
<p>I see now that his victim's family have come out with a statement pointing this out. He has never apologised to his victim, not once according to them. Apparently he is also re-defining history to claim that the act he was convicted of was a one-off occurrence when in reality it was the one occurrence that the prosecution carried through with and the problem was a pattern of violence.</p>
<p>I'm not getting at him personally, just think this is an interesting insight to the situation. </p> -
<p>Veitch is revolting. Everything he does is about the PR. If he actually gave a shit about the victim, he would have apologised to HER not the fucking public. And wouldn't keep dragging up the old muck in the press so her and her family have to keep reliving it.</p>
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<p>He's just another me me me media whore. That whole article is turning himself into the victim.</p>
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<p>Kudos to the dad for writing that article in response, and adding a few facts to the mix.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="578192" data-time="1462756580"><p>Veitch is revolting. Everything he does is about the PR. If he actually gave a shit about the victim, he would have apologised to HER not the fucking public. And wouldn't keep dragging up the old muck in the press so her and her family have to keep reliving it.<br><br>
He's just another me me me media whore. That whole article is turning himself into the victim.<br><br>
Kudos to the dad for writing that article in response, and adding a few facts to the mix.</p></blockquote>
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Kudos to the dad for not marching around to Veitch's place and giving the prick a hiding and throwing him down a set of stairs ( I'm sure he wishes he could tho) <br>
As a father to 3 daughters I'd find that very hard not to do if a piece of shit like that did that to my girls. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Toddy" data-cid="578167" data-time="1462752584"><p>Didn't Veitch write something similar 6 months back?</p></blockquote>
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Think he said something on air kind of a throw away bit. Basically again sort of portraying himself as some kind of victim<br>
Rightly so he was put in his place. -
<p>I find Veitch odious. There was a thread about ferners being at parties with TV "stars". I went to one with Veitch and other Auckland Glitterati years and years ago and thought him to be a posturing twat. I'd come from overseas and had no idea who he was. But whatever</p>
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<p>A well reasoned letter from the woman in the Veitch incident's father in stuff I thought</p> -
<p>the comment he made a few months back was about the 'poisonous relationship' he was in that ended publically...</p>
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<p>poor choice of words in the headline</p>
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<p><img src="https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13119049_10154816626823916_6952884882477732260_n.jpg?oh=777107c06ed978ef4532e76f0003c476&oe=57A61EB8" alt="13119049_10154816626823916_6952884882477"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="578008" data-time="1462675563">
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<p>It should be unbelievable, but it's not.</p>
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<p>I'm not really against the death penalty, because there's some things that are so heinous that it's deserved. I am against prisoners meting out "justice" because it's fairly likely that the person delivering the beatings is an equally despicable fucker who is getting his/her rocks off by doing so.</p>
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<p>Overall, I'm of the opinion that there should be prison cells that some people are put in - on their own - and then the door is bricked up behind them. Give them a bed, a toilet, a playstation and a slot that their food goes in and they never come out and no-one ever talks to them again.</p>
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<p>But no controller for the playstation... they can have a monitor and games for it though.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578211" data-time="1462758614">
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<p>I find Veitch odious. There was a thread about ferners being at parties with TV "stars". I went to one with Veitch and other Auckland Glitterati years and years ago and thought him to be a posturing twat. I'd come from overseas and had no idea who he was. But whatever</p>
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<p>A well reasoned letter from the woman in the Veitch incident's father in stuff I thought</p>
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<p>I met him many years ago in Queenstown at winter festival, for some reason I was at the same dinner table with him and he was just an utter piston wristed gibbon (I think this was back in his commercial radio days) so I tried to avoid listening to him from then onward.</p> -
<p>Yup. My dad has known Peter Williams for a long time (him and Mum taught with Peter's parents) so when I was at Uni, Peter gave me a tour around TVNZ, and said anytime I needed a hand with media stuff, to give him a yell (he really is a nice, friendly guy). Anyhoo, I had to write a feature in my third year, and Peter agreed to let me profile him. Interviewed him, and some of his colleagues (including Mike McRoberts lol). Next thing I know, Veitch barrels on up and takes over, talking a mile a minute about himself, with a few refs to Peter.</p>
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<p>He's always been a thoroughly full of shit twatface.</p> -
<p>Add me to the list of people who thinks he is a dick......and that was before the incident let alone afterwards when he went down about as far down the ladder as is possible. I've always had issues with Sports "personalities" trying to be too matey with the players....</p>
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<p>I also hate people who beat women.</p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11634543'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11634543</a></p>
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<p>Piece on the Herald about domestic violence in NZ. Some shocking statistics.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="578286" data-time="1462769588">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11634543'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11634543</a></p>
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<p>Piece on the Herald about domestic violence in NZ. Some shocking statistics.</p>
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<p>That is why Police will ALWAYS attend a '1D' ( Domestic Dispute ) no matter how trivial it might seem when someone rings 111.</p>
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<p>For example a family member might ring and say "male x and female y" are fighting, once the relationship is established and they find out they are spouses, siblings or parent/children they will attend at some stage no matter what even if the caller mentions things have calmed down.</p>
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<p>Again, that only accounts for those actually reported in the first place.</p>