Coronavirus - Australia
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm not blaming ScoMo because people are so fucking dumb they are refusing to get the readily available AZ (by all accounts there is shitloads of it), or even worse
Cancelling already made appointments to get AZ because they heard more Pfizer was coming.
Fuck those people.
I see nothing wrong with the Federal Government's acquisition of vaccines.
They invested in Australian developed (UQ). Not the government's fault it failed. Imagine the uproar if they didn't invest in its development.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
They ordered quantities of two others.
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@mariner4life The media is also culpable, blowing up the few AZ-related deaths without any context at all. I understand how you'd be reticent if you believed you had a chance of dropping dead after getting the shot.
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life The media is also culpable, blowing up the few AZ-related deaths without any context at all. I understand how you'd be reticent if you believed you had a chance of dropping dead after getting the shot.
I've given them more than a few whacks over all of this
Shameless, two-faced fluffybunnies
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life The media is also culpable, blowing up the few AZ-related deaths without any context at all. I understand how you'd be reticent if you believed you had a chance of dropping dead after getting the shot.
The media is fucked. But so are health officials.
A 30yr old woman died of Covid today apparently. Clearly that's shit. But where are the details? She died at home, no ambulance called, was it Sudden Covid Syndrome?
What are we doing here??!!
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life The media is also culpable, blowing up the few AZ-related deaths without any context at all. I understand how you'd be reticent if you believed you had a chance of dropping dead after getting the shot.
The media is fucked. But so are health officials.
A 30yr old woman died of Covid today apparently. Clearly that's shit. But where are the details? She died at home, no ambulance called, was it Sudden Covid Syndrome?
What are we doing here??!!
I notice they pay special attention to the kind of story where the person who died was young or seemingly in "perfect health". Getting the clicks and perhaps using a bit of fear to get everyone vaccinated???
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm not blaming ScoMo because people are so fucking dumb they are refusing to get the readily available AZ (by all accounts there is shitloads of it), or even worse
Cancelling already made appointments to get AZ because they heard more Pfizer was coming.
Fuck those people.
I'm not blaming him because people are dumb. But the fact that people are dumb is not a surprise. A roll out plan that relies on people not being dumb is a bad plan. It's the government's job to manage the dumb people and trick them into doing the smart thing.
I mean yeah at this point they might be beyond managing. But it should never have got to this point where there's such confusion and crisis of confidence in AZ
I see nothing wrong with the Federal Government's acquisition of vaccines.
Dear God, really? What would it take?
They invested in Australian developed (UQ). Not the government's fault it failed. Imagine the uproar if they didn't invest in its development.
You know it's not either / or? They could (and should) have invested in the UQ one, and also enough others.
It's not the government's fault that it failed, but it is 100% the government's fault that they didn't adequately plan for the reasonable likelihood that it would fail.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
Great. Maybe they can put the hundreds of millions of dollars saved in not ordering more expensive vaccines towards the tens of billions of dollars that the unnecessarily extended lockdowns will cost.
They ordered quantities of two others.
Yes. Specifically, they ordered insufficient quantities, far too late.
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm not blaming ScoMo because people are so fucking dumb they are refusing to get the readily available AZ (by all accounts there is shitloads of it), or even worse
Cancelling already made appointments to get AZ because they heard more Pfizer was coming.
Fuck those people.
I'm not blaming him because people are dumb. But the fact that people are dumb is not a surprise. A roll out plan that relies on people not being dumb is a bad plan. It's the government's job to manage the dumb people and trick them into doing the smart thing.
I don't see what that has to do with my point, except very tangentially.
I mean yeah at this point they might be beyond managing. But it should never have got to this point where there's such confusion and crisis of confidence in AZ
He's not the Lone Ranger on this. There's ATAGI, Qld's CHO ffs and the media.
I see nothing wrong with the Federal Government's acquisition of vaccines.
Dear God, really? What would it take?
They invested in Australian developed (UQ). Not the government's fault it failed. Imagine the uproar if they didn't invest in its development.
You know it's not either / or? They could (and should) have invested in the UQ one, and also enough others.
I didn't present it as "either/ or". I simply pointed out they invested in the development of an Australian researched vaccine. The clue is the following paragraphs.
It's not the government's fault that it failed, but it is 100% the government's fault that they didn't adequately plan for the reasonable likelihood that it would fail.
But they clearly did by ordering another three vaccines.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
Great. Maybe they can put the hundreds of millions of dollars saved in not ordering more expensive vaccines towards the tens of billions of dollars that the unnecessarily extended lockdowns will cost.
The Federal Government doesn't control lockdowns. The very lockdowns and associated pursuit of "covid zero" State premiers are locked into and apparently rewarded by the electorate.
They ordered quantities of two others.
Yes. Specifically, they ordered insufficient quantities, far too late.
Says Captain Hindsight. We aren't short of vaccines, just short of the ones people want.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm not blaming ScoMo because people are so fucking dumb they are refusing to get the readily available AZ (by all accounts there is shitloads of it), or even worse
Cancelling already made appointments to get AZ because they heard more Pfizer was coming.
Fuck those people.
I'm not blaming him because people are dumb. But the fact that people are dumb is not a surprise. A roll out plan that relies on people not being dumb is a bad plan. It's the government's job to manage the dumb people and trick them into doing the smart thing.
I don't see what that has to do with my point, except very tangentially.
Yeah, I guess I was responding indirectly to M4L's comment, my bad for not being clear.
I mean yeah at this point they might be beyond managing. But it should never have got to this point where there's such confusion and crisis of confidence in AZ
He's not the Lone Ranger on this. There's ATAGI, Qld's CHO ffs and the media.
Yup, he's not 100% to blame, others have muddied the water. But the confusion required some leadership from the top to give the right message. This needed some advertising / information, you know, like every other country in the developed world. What did we get? That weird, dark, shock ad campaign with the woman on a ventilator - in July FFS!
I see nothing wrong with the Federal Government's acquisition of vaccines.
Dear God, really? What would it take?
They invested in Australian developed (UQ). Not the government's fault it failed. Imagine the uproar if they didn't invest in its development.
You know it's not either / or? They could (and should) have invested in the UQ one, and also enough others.
I didn't present it as "either/ or". I simply pointed out they invested in the development of an Australian researched vaccine. The clue is the following paragraphs.
Well you said "imagine the uproar if they didn't", as if someone had suggested they shouldn't
It's not the government's fault that it failed, but it is 100% the government's fault that they didn't adequately plan for the reasonable likelihood that it would fail.
But they clearly did by ordering another three vaccines.
This argument is only valid if they ordered enough at the right time. They clearly didn't adequately plan, because we did have supply issues.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
Great. Maybe they can put the hundreds of millions of dollars saved in not ordering more expensive vaccines towards the tens of billions of dollars that the unnecessarily extended lockdowns will cost.
The Federal Government doesn't control lockdowns. The very lockdowns and associated pursuit of "covid zero" State premiers are locked into and apparently rewarded by the electorate.
But the national strategy is that we use lockdowns until vaccination is at a sufficient level.
I'm sure scomo would like us to believe that the national strategy is someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility. But thats what the national cabinet agreed and if he doesn't like it then the least he could do is offer an alternative.
If they hadn't bollocksed up the vaccine roll-out, we'd could have been at, guestimate, 50% by now. We'd still be in lockdown, but probably only a few weeks away from getting out. Right now, on 30%, it looks a long way away.
They ordered quantities of two others.
Yes. Specifically, they ordered insufficient quantities, far too late.
Says Captain Hindsight. We aren't short of vaccines, just short of the ones people want.
Fuck me sideways, pointing out something that has been patently obvious for months and months does not count as hindsight.
We are short of all vaccines except AZ (and we were short of that early on). So the plan was that we'd roll AZ out to everyone and there would be no issues or concerns or adverse effects and then it's all sorted. Like I said, that's a crap plan. Yes Atagi and the CHO and the media confused matters, but that's the kind of shat that happens in every country. They needed a better, robust plan.
"I had a plan but it didn't work and it's someone else's fault" just wouldn't cut it in most workplaces, I don't understand why so many people think this mediocrity is good enough when it's the PM.
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Well you said "imagine the uproar if they didn't", as if someone had suggested they shouldn't
Fair point, for clarity that criticism was directed at the media. No one here.
It's not the government's fault that it failed, but it is 100% the government's fault that they didn't adequately plan for the reasonable likelihood that it would fail.
But they clearly did by ordering another three vaccines.
This argument is only valid if they ordered enough at the right time. They clearly didn't adequately plan, because we did have supply issues.
I accept that, but I'd counter from their perspective they'd bought themselves time. Not my preferred approach but I can see the logic.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
Great. Maybe they can put the hundreds of millions of dollars saved in not ordering more expensive vaccines towards the tens of billions of dollars that the unnecessarily extended lockdowns will cost.
The Federal Government doesn't control lockdowns. The very lockdowns and associated pursuit of "covid zero" State premiers are locked into and apparently rewarded by the electorate.
But the national strategy is that we use lockdowns until vaccination is at a sufficient level.
I think that's an acknowledgement of the electoral success such an approach is correlated with.
I'm sure scomo would like us to believe that the national strategy is someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility. But thats what the national cabinet agreed and if he doesn't like it then the least he could do is offer an alternative.
True, they have been relatively silent in their criticism of that approach. I haven't seen much talk of an exit strategy until it was foisted on them.
If they hadn't bollocksed up the vaccine roll-out, we'd could have been at, guestimate, 50% by now. We'd still be in lockdown, but probably only a few weeks away from getting out. Right now, on 30%, it looks a long way away.
Perhaps. I am certainly critical that they haven't incentivised vaccine take up nor argued more strenuously against the clowns such as Qld's CHO. The lack of effective advertising is galling when they're all too happy to spend like drunken sailors spruiking the benefits of their policies as we head into elections.
They ordered quantities of two others.
Yes. Specifically, they ordered insufficient quantities, far too late.
Says Captain Hindsight. We aren't short of vaccines, just short of the ones people want.
Fuck me sideways, pointing out something that has been patently obvious for months and months does not count as hindsight.
But it is hindsight, this problem only exists because of the ignorant fear campaign against AZ.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Well you said "imagine the uproar if they didn't", as if someone had suggested they shouldn't
Fair point, for clarity that criticism was directed at the media. No one here.
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It's not the government's fault that it failed, but it is 100% the government's fault that they didn't adequately plan for the reasonable likelihood that it would fail.
But they clearly did by ordering another three vaccines.
This argument is only valid if they ordered enough at the right time. They clearly didn't adequately plan, because we did have supply issues.
I accept that, but I'd counter from their perspective they'd bought themselves time. Not my preferred approach but I can see the logic.
But why did they need to buy time? If they pulled out the chequebook in mid-2020, like most other developed countries did, then they'd have a plan B and a plan C.
They invested in Australian produced. Low cost and effective.
Great. Maybe they can put the hundreds of millions of dollars saved in not ordering more expensive vaccines towards the tens of billions of dollars that the unnecessarily extended lockdowns will cost.
The Federal Government doesn't control lockdowns. The very lockdowns and associated pursuit of "covid zero" State premiers are locked into and apparently rewarded by the electorate.
But the national strategy is that we use lockdowns until vaccination is at a sufficient level.
I think that's an acknowledgement of the electoral success su8ch an approach is correlated with.
Yes and no. People do generally like it. But what's the alternative to lockdowns? There's "let it rip", which almost nobody want. What else? Everyone else from WA to NSW is essentially following the same plan of "Track and trace, then lockdown if the level gets to X" with just a different X.
I'm sure scomo would like us to believe that the national strategy is someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility. But thats what the national cabinet agreed and if he doesn't like it then the least he could do is offer an alternative.
True, they have been relatively silent in their criticism of that approach. I haven't se much talk of an exit strategy until it was foisted on them.
Yeah, to me this is a major failing- we have the current strategy because the States collectively decided on it. Scomo should have either accepted it, imposed a different plan, or collaboratively worked on a different plan. Instead he stayed silent
If they hadn't bollocksed up the vaccine roll-out, we'd could have been at, guestimate, 50% by now. We'd still be in lockdown, but probably only a few weeks away from getting out. Right now, on 30%, it looks a long way away.
Perhaps. I am certainly critical that they haven't incentivised vaccine take up nor argued more strenuously against the clowns such as Qld's CHO. The lack of effective advertising is galling when they're all too happy to spend like drunken sailors spruiking the benefits of their policies as we head into elections.
Remind me what he/she said? I remember a brouhaha but not the details
They ordered quantities of two others.
Yes. Specifically, they ordered insufficient quantities, far too late.
Says Captain Hindsight. We aren't short of vaccines, just short of the ones people want.
Fuck me sideways, pointing out something that has been patently obvious for months and months does not count as hindsight.
But it is hindsight, this problem only exists because of the ignorant fear campaign against AZ.
Nah. It seems that the plan was AZ or bust. That's a catastrophic plan, if I'd come up with an equivalent in my job it would be career limiting. Because I would have shown an appalling lack of foresight and planning.
Agreed there is a fear campaign against AZ, which is a big part of the problem. But why hasn't the govt done something to counter that?
I'll say it again, a plan that relies on one single vaccine being totally safe and having no issues is a crap plan.
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a wee vent, if you will allow
hi from one of the parts of the country not locked down, but being fucked like it is actually locked down
As we roll in to week 9 in Sydney, week a thousand (cumulative) in Victoria, with the State of Qld closed to the majority of the country, and even the SE corner just emerging from a travel "ban" things are looking less positive than ever.
Vaccinations continue at a decent rate, especially in NSW. But there is hesitancy everywhere. Victoria has serious issues, NSW will soon hit the proportion that flat out don't want it, Qld and WA are feeling protected by their Premiers and are dragging the chain. The so called National Cabinet are agreeing on shit, and then immediately backtracking on it, and publicly. Fingers are pointed between States and Feds, while no body achieves or does anything. So the 70 and 80% targets look, quite frankly, a mile off. And, it appears, won't mean shit to the Premiers any way. Through in reports from overseas of continued infections and deaths, and a Country that has so little exposure to this virus is starting to look happy to stay locked in and away for ever. Those who do speak up are pretty much decried as death merchants immediately.
And thus we come to my particular issue. The tourism industry, an industry that until 20 months ago employed some 750,000 Australians (it's no much less than that obviously) is fucked. Totally and utterly fucked. And there are no lights at the end of the tunnel that we can see. If i can focus on Qld for a second, most especially regional Qld, then the situation is at breaking point. Hotels sit at 15% occupancy. There are no flights. Most of the Country is cut off from us. There is no business. And guess what? There is no support either. It's effectively burn any reserves you are lucky to have, and wait it out. Our only hope is that people from Brisbane want to come up for the school holidays. But, ongoing Govt measures have everyone very very nervous about going anywhere. And you know what? They are a bit shy on spending too much as well.
The hospitality industry is in a dire spot as well. 880,000 jobs in limbo, almost employed a small business owner. No trade. Reduced trade due to restrictions.
NSW has stepped up and is paying businesses 40% of their payroll as long as the lockdown exists. Qld? Fuck all. And you want to know why? They don't have the money. The fluffybunnies are paying for years and years and years of financial mismanagement. So they can point the finger at the Feds all they want (i actually understand teh Feds' position) but this one is on them. No help will be forthcoming. After all, we aren't technically locked down, and we can trade. Sure, we are down 90%, but we can trade. By the way, that's not 90% of like, 2019 pre-covid figures, that's 90% on July 2021.
And what does that lead to? Immense mental health pressures on small business owners who have to worry about not only their families, their homes, their livelihoods, but also all those people they employ who are back on reduced hours, with enormous uncertainty on their short to mid-term futures. Those issues are very real, and are already happening, and are very serious.
So while i completely understand why people clap me down about possible death rates, there is a very serious reason i focus on other things over them. "it's wrong to put the economy over lives" is a very easy thing to say when you completely ignore that what people often mean by "the economy" is the lives of a hundred thousand small business owners who right now do not know how they are going to provide for themselves, their families, and the families of their staff. And they have no idea how long they have to feel like this
It's a very very depressing time.
Vent over. Thank you for the opportunity.
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@mariner4life it's a fucken bad beat all round mate. After all of this is over I hope that governments learn Bout measures to prepare and prevent the next time. But I'm probably hoping for too much
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life it's a fucken bad beat all round mate. After all of this is over I hope that governments learn Bout measures to prepare and prevent the next time. But I'm probably hoping for too much
the fucking chance of that is a little less than zero.
it'll be someone elses problem, so no way i am spending my budget on shit that doesn't win votes like pandemic hospitals. Fuck, you don't even need a pandemic hospital, just a health system that isn't stretched under normal fucking circumstances.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life it's a fucken bad beat all round mate. After all of this is over I hope that governments learn Bout measures to prepare and prevent the next time. But I'm probably hoping for too much
the fucking chance of that is a little less than zero.
it'll be someone elses problem, so no way i am spending my budget on shit that doesn't win votes like pandemic hospitals. Fuck, you don't even need a pandemic hospital, just a health system that isn't stretched under normal fucking circumstances.
Well they don't spend on infrastructure like roads hospitals etc when there isn't a pandemic. So sadly no
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and now today's quote from the Premier as she closes teh border entirely
โWeโre pausing interstate hotspot arrivals immediately. This is about keeping Queenslanders safe from the Delta variant.
โWe do not have any room at the moment. Queensland is being loved to death.โ
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Good post, although too well articulated and not sweary enough to really qualify as a rant.
Must be devastating for the folks in those industries.
The lack of national cohesion and consistent policy one of the most striking things about this pandemic.
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@gibbonrib he did make it too long to read so at least one box ticked on the rant checklist
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@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm loving our ability as a state to fuck major milestones right off - want to grow slowly?
Nah down to the 700s then up to 900! Fuck yes.
I have to admit, I was quietly not too disappointed. Like, imagine the number was 350 by some miracle, it just opens the door to the "we can/should get back to zero" folk.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm loving our ability as a state to fuck major milestones right off - want to grow slowly?
Nah down to the 700s then up to 900! Fuck yes.
I have to admit, I was quietly not too disappointed. Like, imagine the number was 350 by some miracle, it just opens the door to the "we can/should get back to zero" folk.
Eeeeeerrr.....OK.....