Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Apparently yes, that’s exactly what the plan is. Stuart Nash specifically said, multiple times, on Hosking’s show this morning that regardless of the vaccination rates NZ would be implementing lockdowns whenever a delta variant case was detected. Nash was adamant that the government’s communication to that effect has been clear.
Hosking challenged him that because we won’t be able to prevent delta outbreaks coming through the border that meant we would be doing lockdowns forever. Nash did not back away from his statement.
You get the government you deserve.
I have mentioned several times that governments don't like handing back power. Seems like the plan is to lockup the public when they feel like it. Forever.
If we are vaccinated to a high level, lets say 80% there is no reason to have lockdowns anymore. You protect the vulnerable, eg Rest Homes, as much as possible and no longer worry about Covid cases, you care about ICU admissions and deaths.
Which will drop drastically under vaccinations (see that in the UK already).
Yep. I'll just leave this here:
Summarises the issues well.
I' ll add "A goal without a plan is just a dream". Sums up this government's approach since March 2020;
"We'll be first in line for vaccines". Nope, last.
"We'll vaccinate the border workers" Nope, 30% Not to mention MIQ workers.
"Getting people vaccinated with give us more options at the border" Nope, endless lockdowns.I will give them a pass if supply has been an issue. But there is zero excuse for every MIQ, airport, customs and post worker not to be vaccinated and regularly tested. The media have said little about this
we could have had supply, for $40M. We chose to go late and save money, and it's backfired.
There were supply issues worldwide, and we were also later than other countries because they decided to go for emergency approval of the vaccines, while NZ waited for the full approval.
Edited to add that other countries were also opting for brands with a lower efficacy rating.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Apparently yes, that’s exactly what the plan is. Stuart Nash specifically said, multiple times, on Hosking’s show this morning that regardless of the vaccination rates NZ would be implementing lockdowns whenever a delta variant case was detected. Nash was adamant that the government’s communication to that effect has been clear.
Hosking challenged him that because we won’t be able to prevent delta outbreaks coming through the border that meant we would be doing lockdowns forever. Nash did not back away from his statement.
You get the government you deserve.
I have mentioned several times that governments don't like handing back power. Seems like the plan is to lockup the public when they feel like it. Forever.
If we are vaccinated to a high level, lets say 80% there is no reason to have lockdowns anymore. You protect the vulnerable, eg Rest Homes, as much as possible and no longer worry about Covid cases, you care about ICU admissions and deaths.
Which will drop drastically under vaccinations (see that in the UK already).
Yep. I'll just leave this here:
Summarises the issues well.
I' ll add "A goal without a plan is just a dream". Sums up this government's approach since March 2020;
"We'll be first in line for vaccines". Nope, last.
"We'll vaccinate the border workers" Nope, 30% Not to mention MIQ workers.
"Getting people vaccinated with give us more options at the border" Nope, endless lockdowns.I will give them a pass if supply has been an issue. But there is zero excuse for every MIQ, airport, customs and post worker not to be vaccinated and regularly tested. The media have said little about this
we could have had supply, for $40M. We chose to go late and save money, and it's backfired.
There were supply issues worldwide, and we were also later than other countries because they decided to go for emergency approval of the vaccines, while NZ waited for the full approval.
there's been a lot of good stuff in our Covid response. Vaccine ordering has not been part of that. We still haven't even looked at booster shots (the next step after we get everyone vaccinated).
Basic risk management would have led to teh conclusion that the risk of non-approval, compared to the cost/risk of another lockdown/delay stacked up.
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@nzzp I've heard them say at least a week ago, maybe even two weeks ago, that they were considering whether booster shots were needed and would be offered in the near future.
The whole problem is that a lot of people only rely on a few media articles for their information. If everyone actually listened to all media conferences from start to finish, they'd hear a lot more than is being reported.
I disagree with you last sentence. They relied on the science available at the time (before the delta variant). It's easy to look at things with hindsight.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I disagree with you last sentence. They rely on the science available at the time (before the delta variant). It's easy to look at things with hindsight.
No worries. I disagree with you on that point - I think we bottled it, and had no sense of urgency to get vaccine here. Possibly complacency - and our Gross National Smugness was off the charts - but either way, the dice finally came up badly for us.
I'm really nervous about what this Delta variant will do. High vaccination rates mitigate the risk significantly - you jus thave to look at UK to see the rate of hospitalisaion/deaths. We are vulnerable until we get vaccinated, adn we're lagging the entire OECD by some margin.
So, happy to have a different point of view, but from my perspective there's been no sense of urgency, and this is not hindsight. Still, we're ahead of the planned vaccine rollout right now
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@nzzp don’t worry mate, just blame Sydney. That’s the in thing right now…
In my view there is a victim of their own success element to both NZ and OZ.
I have spoken to many people that think the border is shut, there is basically no covid, why get the jab? They’re not anti-vaxxers, but short of making it mandatory, they haven’t felt the reason to get it no matter what government messaging, encouragement, campaign etc they have seen.
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Anyway, this is from the latest media release:
There are three new cases of COVID-19 in the community to confirm this afternoon.
These are additional to the seven cases reported previously. This brings the total community cases at this stage to 10. Nine of these cases have been linked to other community cases and the remaining case has been linked to the border.
Details of the three new cases, who are all in Auckland, are as follows:- A man in his 20s. This man is the partner of a known case who was reported as a positive case this morning.
- A woman in her 60s. Interviews are underway to determine any link to existing cases. This woman has a connection to the border.
*A woman in her 20s. She has a connection with another case reported today.
In addition, two cases announced at 1pm today have now been linked to existing cases.
\ - A teenage woman who was a close contact of a case reported today.
- A man in his 20s who visited the household where three of the cases reported today reside.
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@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp don’t worry mate, just blame Sydney. That’s the in thing right now…
In my view there is a victim of their own success element to both NZ and OZ.
I have spoken to many people that think the border is shut, there is basically no covid, why get the jab? They’re not anti-vaxxers, but short of making it mandatory, they haven’t felt the reason to get it no matter what government messaging, encouragement, campaign etc they have seen.
don't disagree - but we are limited on teh supply side at present. Separately, there's going to be a terrible choice to make if we only get to 60/70% vaccination (which I expect). If so, can yuo reopen? Do you throw all those who stepped up under teh bus, in exchange for people who chose not to, and those who couldn't? It's going to be gnarly as hell.
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@nzzp i reckon we will eventually get to ~70%, I have heard a number of around ~11% of people have immunity issues and can get very ill or worse from vaccines, although some are still happy to get vaccinated, leaving ~19% who will refuse.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
There were supply issues worldwide, and we were also later than other countries because they decided to go for emergency approval of the vaccines, while NZ waited for the full approval
In the UK emergency approval generally meant cutting out the bureaucracy and being smart about testing lead-times rather than compromising safety.
The independent regulator (MHRA) was running a rolling review of the trial data as soon as it became available and had been effectively assessing it for over a year before approval. Normally a drug company doesn't submit a vaccine until all the data is available. There was also very strict batch testing of vaccines before use to ensure safety.
The UK has made loads of mistakes but in terms of developing, approving and rollout of Covid vaccines, they have done a pretty good job. There's been a high take up of the jab and I think how they communicated the approval and safety process to the public has been part of that.
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I think this really needed to happen. Reasons being:
- The population to take a look at their vaccination apathy
- The government to go full lockdown again and then see how the population reacts
- To question the viability of the zero-covid approach
It is obviously not for me as a non-resident to really obtain a strong view on these things, but I am certainly watching with interest.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
All NZ alert level 4 tonight for 3 days.
Is that solely because they've got no idea where it's spread to so they hope that buys them time?
Unfortunately for NZ, this is just proof positive you can't have a slightly open border. It's going to get out.
I blame Deans. And Australians in general.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Apparently yes, that’s exactly what the plan is. Stuart Nash specifically said, multiple times, on Hosking’s show this morning that regardless of the vaccination rates NZ would be implementing lockdowns whenever a delta variant case was detected. Nash was adamant that the government’s communication to that effect has been clear.
Hosking challenged him that because we won’t be able to prevent delta outbreaks coming through the border that meant we would be doing lockdowns forever. Nash did not back away from his statement.
You get the government you deserve.
I have mentioned several times that governments don't like handing back power. Seems like the plan is to lockup the public when they feel like it. Forever.
If we are vaccinated to a high level, lets say 80% there is no reason to have lockdowns anymore. You protect the vulnerable, eg Rest Homes, as much as possible and no longer worry about Covid cases, you care about ICU admissions and deaths.
Which will drop drastically under vaccinations (see that in the UK already).
Yep. I'll just leave this here:
Summarises the issues well.
I' ll add "A goal without a plan is just a dream". Sums up this government's approach since March 2020;
"We'll be first in line for vaccines". Nope, last.
"We'll vaccinate the border workers" Nope, 30% Not to mention MIQ workers.
"Getting people vaccinated with give us more options at the border" Nope, endless lockdowns.I will give them a pass if supply has been an issue. But there is zero excuse for every MIQ, airport, customs and post worker not to be vaccinated and regularly tested. The media have said little about this
we could have had supply, for $40M. We chose to go late and save money, and it's backfired.
There were supply issues worldwide, and we were also later than other countries because they decided to go for emergency approval of the vaccines, while NZ waited for the full approval.
Edited to add that other countries were also opting for brands with a lower efficacy rating.
I didn't really think this was the wrong thing to do honestly. Why shove something in the arm of all your residents if a) you don't need to and b)you can have the worlds population go first and see how it goes.
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@majorrage I always intended on getting vaccinated, but was only about 3 or 4 weeks ago I decided I was gonna get it ASAP.
I consider myself fit and healthy, rarely get sick, but seeing stories of other people with those same attributes dying elsehwhere in the world, unvaccinated, I decided to do it sooner.
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@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp don’t worry mate, just blame Sydney. That’s the in thing right now…
In my view there is a victim of their own success element to both NZ and OZ.
I have spoken to many people that think the border is shut, there is basically no covid, why get the jab? They’re not anti-vaxxers, but short of making it mandatory, they haven’t felt the reason to get it no matter what government messaging, encouragement, campaign etc they have seen.
Actually I agree with you, I noticed quite a few travellers at airports without masks, oh so casual..
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@nzzp if we get to 60-70% and it doesn’t move much beyond that for whatever reason, then I think governments will look at using a more direct approach.
Places like pubs and clubs, hospitality outlets will likely want to ensure their places aren’t super spreading outlets so will look to restrict access. This will likely lead to more vaccinations. Obviously there will need to be genuine exceptions but there is a reasonableness argument when it comes to a safe workplace etc.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp don’t worry mate, just blame Sydney. That’s the in thing right now…
In my view there is a victim of their own success element to both NZ and OZ.
I have spoken to many people that think the border is shut, there is basically no covid, why get the jab? They’re not anti-vaxxers, but short of making it mandatory, they haven’t felt the reason to get it no matter what government messaging, encouragement, campaign etc they have seen.
don't disagree - but we are limited on teh supply side at present. Separately, there's going to be a terrible choice to make if we only get to 60/70% vaccination (which I expect). If so, can yuo reopen? Do you throw all those who stepped up under teh bus, in exchange for people who chose not to, and those who couldn't? It's going to be gnarly as hell.
They can all go and live on an offshore island. Plenty of freedom there.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage I always intended on getting vaccinated, but was only about 3 or 4 weeks ago I decided I was gonna get it ASAP.
I consider myself fit and healthy, rarely get sick, but seeing stories of other people with those same attributes dying elsehwhere in the world, unvaccinated, I decided to do it sooner.
Im in the same boat. Was all 'no rush' then once saw how bad things were going in Aus I thought better get it asap so just rang and booked. Now that day cant come soon enough.
Also.....I went mountain biking with a mask late this arvo. It was shite but needed to do it, especially where I live.
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@nostrildamus said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
hey can all go and live on an offshore island. Plenty of freedom there.
Depends if Australia will let them in.