Pasifika - how do we fix this?
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I also think we , as rugby fans, and NZRU as the organisers - need to get away from the fallacy that there is demand in South Auckland to watch lop-sided rugby of teams not representing what the fans think is their true strength/worth.
The pictures tell the story. All from Mount Smart.
Tonga Rugby League at Mt Smart, with some of the best players in the world in their team (even if said players aren't Tongan born or produced):
Tonga Rugby Union at Mt Smart, where the best 6 Tongan born and produced players play for someone else (possibly even the opposition sometimes) let alone lack of access to attract top quality diaspora talent.
I could have chose Eden Park 2017 double-header pictures for the same effect ...
This is where I stray into Moana Pasifika doom and gloom territory. I believe there is no market in South Auckland amongst the diaspora community to watch their not-best players play with hands tied behind their back against opponents with financial advantages tipping the scales even more.
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Personally, I think players should be able to play for a tier 2 country if eligible after a 2-3 year stand down, where they make it clear they intend to play for said team 2 years before they do. ie; if a player has not been selected for Aus, NZ etc etc for 2 year after playing tests, they still can't play unless they made themselves unavailable for selction for 2 years at tier 1 team. I would also completely drop grandparent rule too (and I reckon parent rule) as I think you should play for where you live or where you born.
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@dan54 you take away grandparents and Samoa and Tonga are done. Tthey might even have to add a great grand parent rule for the islands soon.
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@muddyriver said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
@dan54 you take away grandparents and Samoa and Tonga are done. They might even have to add a great grand parent rule for the islands soon.
I was going to raise that very point. The diaspora that benefits from greater economic investment will eventually diminish so there isn't sufficient depth in that pipeline. Which would then mean the only other avenue is relying on professionalism elsewhere. The obvious problem there is not gaining sufficient time in camp outside of major tournaments and lack of established combinations.
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@muddyriver said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
@dan54 you take away grandparents and Samoa and Tonga are done. Tthey might even have to add a great grand parent rule for the islands soon.
The great grandparent rule might seem outlandish, but someone moving to a country to play professional sport can qualify on residence which I don't think is less outlandish.
I'd add if your parent played for a team then you could too - say if Paul and Gavin Williams kids decided they wanted to play for Samoa, as I understand it they are currently ineligible (although they would be if a great grandparent rule came in).
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@muddyriver said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
@dan54 you take away grandparents and Samoa and Tonga are done. Tthey might even have to add a great grand parent rule for the islands soon.
Tonga actually produce an amazing number of players, and their diaspora is a generation more recent than Samoa's. They'd be OK. Samoa would be a bit farked, though.
It gets a bit lost in the PI argument, but the lack of talent that the Samoan island produces is amazing. Samoan genetics aren't the problem. But what the hell is the problem on the actual island? It's almost a scandal. They'd lose to a Hawkes Bay-born or Southland-born team etc. Get thrashed by Manawatu-born. Provinces with smaller populations than Samoa. Parity with Namibia, maybe.
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@muddyriver said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
@dan54 you take away grandparents and Samoa and Tonga are done. Tthey might even have to add a great grand parent rule for the islands soon.
Geez a great grandparent rule could give someone up to 16 teams they could play for. And I think most players in NZ would be able to play for Englnd, Scotland, Tonga,etc etc etc etc
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@mariner4life someone had to say it I guess.
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@rapido said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
But what the hell is the problem on the actual island?
Probably a combination of a lack of coaching talent to identify and develop players to any decent level + the large shadow cast by the more-talented diaspora leads to a bit of a "why bother" attitude.
That 7s side that won the World Series a few years back was a real black swan in the history of Samoan rugby developed locally reaching the very top table, but generally, for any local talent to succeed requires more self-determination than anything to get a ticket off-island.
You are right about the slim pickings for locally produced players though (up to college level). Some names that come to mind for me:
Tuilagi brothers
Logovii Mulipola
Sosene Anesi
Afato Sooalo
Lucky Mulipola
Brian Lima
David Lemi
Alafoti Faosiliva
Ofisa Treviranus -
@maxwell said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
@rapido said in Pasifika - how do we fix this?:
But what the hell is the problem on the actual island?
Probably a combination of a lack of coaching talent to identify and develop players to any decent level + the large shadow cast by the more-talented diaspora leads to a bit of a "why bother" attitude.
You'd expect that attitude to only get worse if they change the eligibility rules and former ABs/Wallabies etc of Samoan heritage can play for Samoa.
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@stargazer I would think so – also when they see Moana Pasifika being filled with diaspora players, it doesn't fill the locals with confidence of a realistic pathway.
The best pathway is to make noises at the schools level and hope someone in NZ/Aus hears about you through the grapevine and cares enough to offer a scholarship - or you have a relative willing to take you in and put you through school there
