KP - WTF

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="571432" data-time="1460324631">
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Perhaps being mercenary is not just about money. 
To my mind if he just wants to play international cricket, any international cricket, for whatever country will have him that devalues international cricket.
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The final passage of the article.
 
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">"The eligibility for South Africa is still [more than] a year away. So we will have to wait and see but [an England call-up] is definitely still an option," said Pietersen</blockquote>
 
He still wants to play for England, but Strauss and co reneged on a public statement by Colin Graves (chairman of selectors) that if Pietersen played country cricket he would be considered for selection. He hits a triple century for Surrey and then gets told there is no way back into the team for him. There is extensive interviews with him at the time asking for a path back to the team and just as many with Strauss not offering one and intimating it was curtains for his international career.
 
He can't play for England no matter how hard he tries, so it's natural he would look elsewhere.

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="571436" data-time="1460325101">
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It's perception with SBW though, sure he has two WC winners medals but I have a feeling the ABs would have done it with or without him.
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His impact off the bench in the 2011 semi final was memorable though.
 
He certainly earned his stripes off the bench in 2015 (like you I think Fekitoa would have done the job too), but in 2011 I think they ostensibly carried him and he was a risk - we would have been a better unit with Toeava covering the outside backs than him IMO.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="571436" data-time="1460325101">
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It's perception with SBW though, sure he has two WC winners medals but I have a feeling the ABs would have done it with or without him.
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not disputing that, obviously he has been labelled Money Bill Williams too, which is unfair given money does not appear to be his main motivator.
 
But like Booboo says, maybe peoples views of what a mercenary is differs too.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571440" data-time="1460325514">
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His impact off the bench in the 2011 semi final was memorable though.
 
He certainly earned his stripes off the bench in 2015 (like you I think Fekitoa would have done the job too), but in 2011 I think they ostensibly carried him and he was a risk - we would have been a better unit with Toeava covering the outside backs than him IMO.
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All I remember of him in that was missing Rougerie, not having a go, just being honest.
 
People go on about him being a "supreme athlete" but really, what does he actually do aside from off loading that is head and shoulders above his peers ? run with incredible speed ? bump/fend/step guys ?

MajorRage

I've always thought there is much much more to the whole KP thing than what we know.
 
Remember last year when Strauss was hung out to dry by all and sundry for effectively ending Pietersen's career? Not many,if any, current England players came out in support of KP. Cricket isn't as much as a team sport as others, but it still a team sport.
 
For me, I woul have kicked him out after text-message gate, and offered him absolute no recourse right there and then. Texting your homeland mates with tips on how to remove your adopted land captain is life without parole for me.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="571472" data-time="1460332884">
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I've always thought there is much much more to the whole KP thing than what we know.
 
Remember last year when Strauss was hung out to dry by all and sundry for effectively ending Pietersen's career? Not many,if any, current England players came out in support of KP. Cricket isn't as much as a team sport as others, but it still a team sport.
 
For me, I woul have kicked him out after text-message gate, and offered him absolute no recourse right there and then. Texting your homeland mates with tips on how to remove your adopted land captain is life without parole for me.
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On the field I always admired KP hugely, very good record, fighting qualities and certainly a really dashing batsman to watch for a tall guy. Agree about that texting shit though, absolutely unforgivable.

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="571472" data-time="1460332884">
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I've always thought there is much much more to the whole KP thing than what we know.
 
Remember last year when Strauss was hung out to dry by all and sundry for effectively ending Pietersen's career? Not many,if any, current England players came out in support of KP. Cricket isn't as much as a team sport as others, but it still a team sport.
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Isn't that pretty reasonably explained by the fact that it's not easy/smart to come out and speak out against your new boss in his first week on the job? Path of least resistance really.
 
Add to that half the squad was in flux anyway so publicly going against the establishment isn't a smart move for Moen Ali, Ben Stokes or Jos Butler to make trying to cement and Ashes birth.
 
Most of the ex-players (including former teammates of his) came out in support of Pietersen and common sense. Flintoff, Vaughn, Hoggard, Harmisson. Basically anyone who knows the player (and Strauss for that matter) and doesn't fear retribution... except Swann.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571479" data-time="1460334582">
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Isn't that pretty reasonably explained by the fact that it's not easy/smart to come out and speak out against your new boss in his first week on the job? Path of least resistance really.
 
Add to that half the squad was in flux anyway so publicly going against the establishment isn't a smart move for Moen Ali, Ben Stokes or Jos Butler to make trying to cement and Ashes birth.
 
Most of the ex-players (including former teammates of his) came out in support of Pietersen and common sense. Flintoff, Vaughn, Hoggard, Harmisson. Basically anyone who knows the player (and Strauss for that matter) and doesn't fear retribution... except Swann.
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Common sense?
 
So if Greg Rawlinson sent a text message to Victor Matfield explaining our line out calls, common sense is that he should be selected for the All Blacks again if he's showing some cracking form?
 
With respect to your other points, they are fair - and I guess is why I think the public has really only been told less than half of the story.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="571480" data-time="1460335008">
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Common sense?
 
So if Greg Rawlinson sent a text message to Victor Matfield explaining our line out calls, common sense is that he should be selected for the All Blacks again if he's showing some cracking form?
 
With respect to your other points, they are fair - and I guess is why I think the public has really only been told less than half of the story.
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Didn't he just call Strauss a doos? I genuinely could be missing something because I know the actual contents of the messages filtered out slowly but based on what I thought the texts were it would be more like Rawlinson texting Matfield saying Richie is the most boring man alive or something.
 
Although equating Pietersen to Rawlinson and Richie to Strauss in terms of leadership is a poor showing anyway.
 
I have no doubt grievances from the AB set up have been shared to other international players - specifically those playing for PI teams who play Super Rugby with ABs over the years. The SBW-Cooper text chain is unlikely to be glowing the praise for the AB set up. I do not doubt that Deans shared his grievances with his brother in law (RIP) during his early Wallaby days etc. This thing goes on.

Siam

I've spoken with people that share the same teams as KP. Of course the question of "What's he really like came up"
 
Bit of a dick, but unanimously, KP always does what's best for KP and if KP needs you for something then KP is great. But when KP doesn't need you for something that benefits KP then you don't really exist.
 
If you look at all the recommendations for KP, there's a common theme that KP will score you runs and win you matches. Not a lot of glowing personality recommendations
 
But, whatever, each to their own

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571418" data-time="1460316460">
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I would certainly consider him less of a mercenary than the senior NZ players who routinely miss tour matches to play in the IPL including two previous captains.
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Who seek permission from NZC and are granted permission from NZC.
 
Take it up with David White and co rather than smearing the players.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="571539" data-time="1460345090">
Who seek permission from NZC and are granted permission from NZC. 
Take it up with David White and co rather than smearing the players.</blockquote>
I'm not smearing the players. I am responding to comment about KPs willingness or unwillingness to play for his country above all others regardless of money. He seems to have it in spades. Make what you will of Vettori and McCullum.

MN5

It's potentially a bit of a thorny one the whole "being mates with the opposition" thing. I remember that photo of Sopoaga, Fekitoa, De Allende and Etzebeth on the piss last year. I mean who's to say that Fekitoa didn't compare midfield play with De Allende after a few wets and go on about how excited he would be when Nonu, Smith and SBW all fucked off and made his path easier ?

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571540" data-time="1460345333">
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I'm not smearing the players. I am responding to comment about KPs willingness or unwillingness to play for his country above all others regardless of money. He seems to have it in spades. Make what you will of Vettori and McCullum.
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Bull shit, you labelled McCullum Vetori or Taylor as mercenaries. You didn't respond to anything. You tried to make a point by bringing in 3 totally unrelated people to the story and "smeared" them as mercenaries

Virgil

Everyone is so pissy today... Not many ferners getting laid it would seem....

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="571542" data-time="1460345844">
Bull shit, you labelled McCullum Vetori or Taylor as mercenaries. You didn't respond to anything. You tried to make a point by bringing in 3 totally unrelated people to the story and "smeared" them as mercenaries</blockquote>
 
I said they were less mercenaries than KP who by your definition has been told not only he has permission to not play for England but to fuck off as well.

mariner4life

fucking painters and decorators

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="571544" data-time="1460346067">
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Everyone is so pissy today... Not many ferners getting laid it would seem....
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Yep. As Nick would say, don't be afraid to have the odd Willis if it helps relieve a bit of tension.
 
Edit - there's some material to use in the Movie Review thread if you need it.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571418" data-time="1460316460">
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I would certainly consider him less of a mercenary than the senior NZ players who routinely miss tour matches to play in the IPL including two previous captains.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="571546" data-time="1460346500">
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I said they were less mercenaries than KP who by your definition has been told not only he has permission to not play for England but to fuck off as well.
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Oh my mistake - must have missed the memo that changed the English language :think:
 
Fancy a cup of tea (better virg? )

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="571549" data-time="1460346744">
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Yep. As Nick would say, don't be afraid to have the odd Willis if it helps relieve a bit of tension.
 
Edit - there's some material to use in the Movie Review thread if you need it.
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Back in five minutes.
 
What? I'm at work? Who cares! I'm sitting in the corner anyway.

The Silver Fern

KP - WTF