'Super Rugby' 2021
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@derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@chris in the final Crusaders are 3/4 against other NZ opposition (Blues pinched one early) but only 4/7 against Aus opposition (one each against Reds, Brumbies and Waratahs). 3/3 against the rest.
Bit of variety never hurts.
I am all for variety
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Agreed (we've talked about this before). My point is that three rounds of the Crusaders winning everything won't make the product as viable. Their dominance gets far less important when there are 12 teams, as the other NZ teams look much better than (in reality) they are vis-a-vis the Sader machine, and there are usually other teams who've been strong within their countries.
Round one: Super rugby Aotearoa
Round two: Super Rugby Australasia (NZ/OZ) as crossover games
Round three: Super Rugby Asia (NZ/OZ/Japan) in 3 pools of five teams?(edit: 3 pools, Cup, plate, bowl)
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@gt12 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Agreed (we've talked about this before). My point is that three rounds of the Crusaders winning everything won't make the product as viable. Their dominance gets far less important when there are 12 teams, as the other NZ teams look much better than (in reality) they are vis-a-vis the Sader machine, and there are usually other teams who've been strong within their countries.
Round one: Super rugby Aotearoa
Round two: Super Rugby Australasia (NZ/OZ) as crossover games
Round three: Super Rugby Asia (NZ/OZ/Japan) in 4 pools of five teams?No argument. from me there, the 3 Rds you have mapped out would be great.
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@gt12 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
If the Saders win the third round at a canter, I think there will discussions about the viability of the product. I hope that the Blues can get an upset over them and at least keep it close, so that there is still interest in the format by that time.
Forget about the competitiveness for a second. 3 rounds raises other questions
The lack of variety will become an issue. Four opponents is not enough to maintain interest.
The attrition problem will get worse. The games are still extremely physical even if they blow out at the end.
There was a window last year when NZR could’ve done something more radical. I suspect the window has closed. I would have liked a single competition with more teams than 5 but less teams than 14 to replace both SR & NPC
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@duluth said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@gt12 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
If the Saders win the third round at a canter, I think there will discussions about the viability of the product. I hope that the Blues can get an upset over them and at least keep it close, so that there is still interest in the format by that time.
Forget about the competitiveness for a second. 3 rounds raises other questions
The lack of variety will become an issue. Four opponents is not enough to maintain interest.
The attrition problem will get worse. The games are still extremely physical even if they blow out at the end.
There was a window last year when NZR couldn't done something more radical. I suspect the window has closed. I would have liked a single competition with more teams than 5 but less teams than 14 to replace both SR & NPC
Absolutely. I agree with the idea that the opportunity for radical change seems to have been missed too.
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@duluth It won't surprise you that I don't want anything to replace the NPC. To me, that's still the most interesting competition and the feeder competition to the next level, whatever that's going to look like. The step from club/school rugby to any form of Super Rugby is too big IMO.
For a SR+Japanese clubs competition, I think something like a 2-conference format with an Japanese conference and a Trans- Ta$man Pasifika conference, followed by play-offs between an x-number of highest ranked teams of each conference, culminating in a final, seems - logistically - the most feasible format. With "x" being the number of teams that allows the organisers to fit in a certain number of games in a playing window that is acceptable from a player welfare point of view and leaves enough time in-between this competition and the start of NPC. I think that also comes closest to the proposed new comp in Japan from 2022.
That World Club Competition is still on the cards, too. No idea about what time of the year that is to be played, though.
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@duluth although players do get a week off every month when they get a bye, which is the only consolation of this format, but agree completely on the lack of variety will being a huge issue, I mean looking at the results from the last week, lets say in another 6-8 weeks what would the bums on seats be like for a Chiefs v Hurricanes game in Hamilton, even eyeballs on the TV?
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@taniwharugby in another month I may be watching - I watched the cricket both times in preference (men Friday, women Sunday). I love me some rugby, but it's so early in the year. If we can't get internationals, it'll look worryingly like losing interest unfortunately.
NFL starts in September, so hanging on for that
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@stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@duluth It won't surprise you that I don't want anything to replace the NPC. To me, that's still the most interesting competition and the feeder competition to the next level, whatever that's going to look like. The step from club/school rugby to any form of Super Rugby is too big IMO.
That's at odds with the modern practice of school -> academy -> SR.
NPC is relegated to second chance saloon.
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You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
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@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
That's straight from a SR coach's mouth.
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@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
You would need to have a full SR Development competition or U20 competition to bridge any gap between 1st XV and SR. Academies would only cater for the latter competition as they are usually for the 18-21 yr old players who usually develop via the provincial age-group teams (e.g. U19s) before being promoted to being full-time professionals.
an if you did that i think you'd need a draft of those development players to stop teams stock piling the youth, develop as many as you like but you can only protect so many and the rest are up for grabs in the draft
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@kiwiwomble problem is, there isnt enough money in the sport at that level to make a draft workable.
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@taniwharugby do you mean bidding wars for players? i thought drafts were a way around big money, bottom teams get first choice to rookies kind of deal
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@kiwiwomble so how do these kids, cos thats who most of those drafted will be, live in this new location, if on a dev contract which is likely to be <$30,000 a year (basic NPC contracts are <$15,000) so am just guessing.
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I'm not sure a draft would work in NZ rugby.
The issue is forcing people to move to a region they may not want to (away from family etc). The easier option would be to limit how many players you can have in your academy from outside your region to encourage franchises to identify and develop local talent. Obviously that would hugely benefit the Blues and disadvantage the Highlanders based on population. So no easy solution.
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@taniwharugby I'm talking about about after the development when they go pro.
the teams run a development comp where they concentrate on the youth in the in region, players that might be able to live at home.
@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I'm not sure a draft would work in NZ rugby.
The issue is forcing people to move to a region they may not want to (away from family etc). The easier option would be to limit how many players you can have in your academy from outside your region to encourage franchises to identify and develop local talent. Obviously that would hugely benefit the Blues and disadvantage the Highlanders based on population. So no easy solution.
they already move around, highlanders famously full of people from Ta$man and HB, and drafts arent compulsory, in the AFL theyve been turned down, but its a gamble you dont get picked up by someone else
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where there is agreement aside for a second, this is a great line!
"6 Shannon Frizell (Highlanders): Came out breathing fire after halftime and started eating up Chiefs ball carriers to help shift the momentum of the game."
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@tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Grand Final Winner-Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021
Crusaders
1.80Blues
2.75Highlanders
13.00Hurricanes
18.00Chiefs
20.00Chiefs are massive unders there
