Black Caps v Pakistan
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Black Caps need away series win to achieve greatness - Bidwell
Opinion - Despite the Black Caps home win over Pakistan, elite status will continue to elude them until they can topple one of the Big Three in a series away from home, Hamish Bidwell writes.
Bidwell is a bit heavy handed on the negativity - our series win over Pakistan in the UAE was a couple of years ago now, but they were a seriously impressive team on a real tear at the time. And I this Pakistan side have been made to look worse than they are by some very good performances by our lot.
That said, I think it's fair that we missed a opportunity to make the rest of the world pay attention with the Aussie tour. Even a 3-0 loss where every match was competitive into the 5th day would have been enough I think (and if we'd done that we probably would have snuck at least one). Getting to Lords for this final would be a chance for partial redemption.
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@Cyclops said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
That said, I think it's fair that we missed a opportunity to make the rest of the world pay attention with the Aussie tour.
eh, it wasn't important enough to spend time in the country acclimatising, or starting with a familiar red ball. Nah, we'll just start with a pink ball in perth and see what happens yo.
Also, the leadup to that was shocking. Picking Mitchell and hten dropping him for a prayer with Ferguson was abysmal selection
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@Cyclops That Australian tour was one where nothing went right - from Boult being out, losing the toss in Perth, to Ferguson breaking down....and on and on it went.
And we were partially the architects of our own demise in agreeing to the schedule as @nzzp points out. And I think we were shell-shocked by what the Aussie pace men produced in Perth, which was genuinely frightening.
But, there is no escaping that the final result was a complete humiliation. So while it's great that the numbers add up to us being No. 1, I think it comes with a big asterisk labelled Australia.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
But, there is no escaping that the final result was a complete humiliation. So while it's great that the numbers add up to us being No. 1, I think it comes with a big asterisk labelled Australia.
I'd say the asterisk is more that we got plenty of home series. Reality is, winning away is really hard. Australia have only won in India once - 2004 - and got thumped plenty of times. Winning at home is kind of expected.
I still think we bowled exceptionally well at Smith and Loos Bus Change in Perth ... they were just good enough to deal with it and not get out. Fair play to the, but doesn't make the bowling attack (with an injury) suddenly bad. After 5 sessions, getting their quicks with a swinging ball was just too much, and we struggled to recover.
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
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Oh yeah, there's plenty of reasons why that went badly. Anyone who is a dedicated cricket follower will recognise that this team is fantastic and deserving of the credit.
It's more getting recognition from the fans who aren't following every series and innings.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
I might put a lazy fiver on it, but agree that it's a tough match even at home.
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@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
I might put a lazy fiver on it, but agree that it's a tough match even at home.
tough, but we should be in the game. Get Smith and Marnus early, and you're on ... behind those two the batters aren't great at the moment (given Warner's coming back from injury)
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Godder said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
I might put a lazy fiver on it, but agree that it's a tough match even at home.
tough, but we should be in the game. Get Smith and Marnus early, and you're on ... behind those two the batters aren't great at the moment (given Warner's coming back from injury)
Might end up like the 2015 CWC preliminary game where both bowling attacks wrecked the batting, but Kane got us home.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
If we put up Santner vs Lyon we lose that matchup
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
If we put up Santner vs Lyon we lose that matchup
I don't think we'd get a bowler in a joint team if they picked just four.
Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon.
Warner, Latham, Kane, Marnus, Smith, Taylor and BJ probably edges Paine.
Jamieson probably makes it if they pick an allrounder to bat at 7 based on his phenomenal start in test cricket - but, he'd probably be taking Rossco's spot - according to me, anyway.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Also, those quicks. Goddamn. They mowed through India, and their lineup is something special. Amazing group of bowlers
Yeah - they are. They've got three guys the size of Big Kyle and they all bowl 5-10 clicks faster than him. And then they've got Lyon vs Santner.
Even with us playing at home, I wouldn't put any money on us beating Australia.
If we put up Santner vs Lyon we lose that matchup
I don't think we'd get a bowler in a joint team if they picked just four.
Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon.
Warner, Latham, Kane, Marnus, Smith, Taylor and BJ probably edges Paine.
Jamieson probably makes it if they pick an allrounder to bat at 7 based on his phenomenal start in test cricket - but, he'd probably be taking Rossco's spot - according to me, anyway.
Oops I misread. I thought we were talking about a head to head series
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
A useful article summarising what needs to happen for NZ to play in the World Test Championship final at Lords.
If my maths is right:
AUSTRALIA
Current points percentage: 76.7 (322 out of 420)What’s left (max
180150 points):-India
21 home tests(30pts per win, 10pts per draw)-South Africa 3 away tests (40pts per win, 13pts per draw)
Also: 2-test series in Bangladesh cancelled (120pts not contested)
What they need to top 70 per cent:
10090 more points (win 3 out of54 against India and South Africa; or drawbothlast against India and win 2 against South Africa)INDIA
Current points percentage: 72 (390 out of 540)What’s left (max
180150 points):-Australia
21 away tests(30pts per win, 10pts per draw)-England 4 home tests (30pts per win, 10pts per draw)
What they need to top 70 per cent:
120110 more points (win 4 out of65 against Australia and England; or win 3 and draw32)ENGLAND
Current points percentage: 60.8 (292 out of 480)
What’s left (max 240 points):
-Sri Lanka 2 away tests (60pts per win, 20pts per draw)
-India 4 away tests (30pts per win, 10pts per draw)
What they need to top 70 per cent:
220 more points (win both against Sri Lanka; and win 3 and draw 1 against India)
