Reds v Blues

mariner4life

I knew the Blues were in trouble when their game plan appeared to be throw it wide as often as possible, side to side bullshit. Against a team that has battled defensively, it allowed them to make one on one spot tackles and gain confidence. When they went direct they split the reds with ease. It was fucking dumb rugby.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566256" data-time="1458524459">
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I am sure that Tana isn't focusing on the ref. He can make comment about one aspect while also working on other ones. Pretty stupid to think he isn't looking at all of those things you mention.
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To be fair, that ref is consistently poor. BUT you can't control them, so you can only do what you can.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="566259" data-time="1458525087">
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I knew the Blues were in trouble when their game plan appeared to be throw it wide as often as possible, side to side bullshit. Against a team that has battled defensively, it allowed them to make one on one spot tackles and gain confidence. When they went direct they split the reds with ease. It was fucking dumb rugby. 
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I, for one, welcome our new 'up the guts' overlords.
 
Seriously, we lost to the goddamn reds that year they won the championship. Same thing - go wide, get smoked. Smash it up in tight, go forward. I don't know why we don't just stuff the ball up our jumpers and grind out wins. Wins are freaking wins, just get them however you get them.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="566259" data-time="1458525087">
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I knew the Blues were in trouble when their game plan appeared to be throw it wide as often as possible, side to side bullshit. Against a team that has battled defensively, it allowed them to make one on one spot tackles and gain confidence. When they went direct they split the reds with ease. It was fucking dumb rugby. 
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that's been the gameplan for quite a few years though hasn't it?

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="566260" data-time="1458525158">
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To be fair, that ref is consistently poor. BUT you can't control them, so you can only do what you can.
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Agree and if KiwiMurph read past the headlines he will see that Tana is also reading the riot act to his team for not adjusting to the ref quick enough or well enough.

mariner4life

not always, sometimes they play pretty direct first, then go wide. And surprise surprise, that's generally when they look best. If their 10 plays straight, and uses the many strong ball runners either side of him to punch holes, and then shift out the back to Moala/Visinia/Ranger etc they would go great guns. Biffing 20m passes to a stationary back rarely works against anyone.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566267" data-time="1458525933">
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Agree and if KiwiMurph read past the headlines he will see that Tana is also reading the riot act to his team for not adjusting to the ref quick enough or well enough.
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My point is leave the ref out of it, even with the ref being poor and the Blues not adjusting, they still should have won in a canter.
 
It's the skill level of the players was where my post was generated. I didn't mention Li's handing problems or Visinia's handling getting worse as the game went on (and his pass to Hall looked suspect) or Parsons throwing the ball to no one when in broken play inside Reds 22....
 
I also agree with comments on the game plan. There was a play early on in the first half where they swung a wide pass to Sau/Ioane who got barrelled in a spot tackle behind the line. Not a good ploy.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566267" data-time="1458525933">
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Agree and if KiwiMurph read past the headlines he will see that Tana is also reading the riot act to his team for not adjusting to the ref quick enough or well enough.
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I get pretty annoyed at refs buying dodgy shit from halfbacks too. At one point the (Blues) tackler had rolled well clear of the back of the ruck area, and the Red 9 absolutely hammed it up. Won the penalty, too. Smart play, but still farks me off -- you see good refs calling people who make a meal of it to just play on.
 
... so I got my anorak out and googled it:
<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px;font-size:14.72px;color:#FFFFFF;font-weight:bold;font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">21.9 Contrived infringements at the penalty kick</div>
If the referee believes that the kickerâ€™s team has contrived an infringement by their opponents, the referee does not award a further penalty but allows play to continue.

Crucial

and Pollock did just that in the Chiefs game very early in the piece. A halfback was pleading for a penalty and he said 'he wasn't stopping you getting in there, just play on, I'm not handing out penalties for the sake of them.'

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="566268" data-time="1458526010">
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not always, sometimes they play pretty direct first, then go wide. And surprise surprise, that's generally when they look best. If their 10 plays straight, and uses the many strong ball runners either side of him to punch holes, and then shift out the back to Moala/Visinia/Ranger etc they would go great guns. Biffing 20m passes to a stationary back rarely works against anyone. 
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To me fitness seemed a real issue in the back half of the game and that contributed to lack of attacking options/ideas. West is an erratic player. He reminds me a lot of Jimmy Gopperth. Some very good stuff in there but some very ordinary parts and times he goes a bit missing when he needs be stepping it up.

broughie

Not sure what everyone thinks but to me the Blues forwards are not hitting the line with pace. There are some exceptions like Luatua but Ioane does a bit of tip toeing with a side step and fend. No sure if this is by design but it is not working. 
 
Lack of nous is exactly it. Would be fair to say that the Blues are NZ's special needs children.

Crucial

I think West is still working out how to play at this level. He has a game that is very effective at levels below this but is nullified against better teams.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="broughie" data-cid="566281" data-time="1458526904">
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Not sure what everyone thinks but to me the Blues forwards are not hitting the line with pace. There are some exceptions like Luatua but Ioane does a bit of tip toeing with a side step and fend. No sure if this is by design but it is not working. 
 
Lack of nous is exactly it. Would be fair to say that the Blues are NZ's special needs children.
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They all look a bit off with their timing, not enough moving on to the ball. Hall's unnatural passing action may not be helping. 
 
I've been surprised by a bit of the negative commentary about Luatua this year, i think he's looked good, working hard, pretty effective at the ruck, in the tight, and at lineout. It's not what he made a name for himself doing, but i think he's been pretty effective so far.

antipodean

Yes he seems to be playing much tighter.

African Monkey

Luatua gets negative commentary from other fans because he plays for the Blues and other fans want their own little players ahead of him in the ABs set up. He's been fantasic so far this season wherever he's played.
 
Bryn Hall is the reason why we we struggle on attack I feel. He only knows how to play at one pace and most of the time Ihaia West receives the ball with 3 players outside him marked by 6 defenders. He seriously needs to help West out a bit more and get our big men punching a lot more.

KiwiMurph

Also you have to factor in Luatua is playing the out of position at 8 (and then some time at 4). I'm guessing with Kaino out they'll shift Luatua to 6 and Ioane to 8, although Edwards could also slot in at 6 or perhaps run Latimer/Gibson as 6/7 pairing.

broughie

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="566287" data-time="1458527551">
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They all look a bit off with their timing, not enough moving on to the ball. Hall's unnatural passing action may not be helping. 
 
I've been surprised by a bit of the negative commentary about Luatua this year, i think he's looked good, working hard, pretty effective at the ruck, in the tight, and at lineout. It's not what he made a name for himself doing, but i think he's been pretty effective so far. 
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I think Luatua has been the pick of the Blues forwards and I have been disappointed in Kaino. Maybe he needs the obligatory 4 weeks off to heal and get his mojo back.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="566246" data-time="1458522319">
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I see Tana is critical of the ref - and fair enough the reffing was poor, however I wish Tana would focus on some things that are within his control, such as the decision making and general skills of the team. Hall put in a wasteful kick in an early attacking opportunity, West put in a number of aimless kicks, one of which lead to a Reds try, and Sau butchered a try by hogging instead of passing which was then followed up by a stone cold drop by Rieko Ioane. The Blues were generally very poor under the high ball too.
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Would singling out a bunch of young players mistakes in the media really help though? There was an article a few days ago on how Hansen would only single out senior players mistakes, with the idea that it'd set an example and avoid beating up on the younger guys:
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11607679'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11607679</a>
 
Seemed like a smart idea to me.
 
As for the ref whinge, if it were any other ref I'd agree with you but Lees is completely out of his depth and Sanzaar needs to wake the fuck up and realise that.

Dice

I'm not sure about Luatua, I've watched all the games multiple times(bless me) and I can't see it. I think he's disappearing for large parts of the game as a 8. I thought he looked best at lock against the Canes where he was stuck in middle of the park and was forced to work, but at 8, he floats in and out of games and doesn't really do much ball carrying or tackling.
 
 
In his games at 8, here are his stats:
 
Against the Highlanders - 6 carries and 4 tackles
 
Against the Crusaders - 2 carries and 8 tackles.
 
Against the Reds - 3 carries and 4 tackles
 
 
In his one game at lock against the Canes, he had 12 carries(more than all the 3 games he started at 8 combined) and 8 tackles.
 
Obviously there are other things that aren't accounted for with stats, but from what I've seen, I wouldn't say they're enough to make up for his lack of input in these areas where you expect a 8 to have more input in.
 
I think at lock, I think he can be a winner - he isn't that great a ball carrier anymore as a backrower, but as a lock, he'd be above most locks in that area. He's also looking quite good in the line-outs. The game at lock is a very small sample, but it was the most I've seen him involved in a match for awhile.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="566303" data-time="1458530649">
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Would singling out a bunch of young players mistakes in the media really help though? There was an article a few days ago on how Hansen would only single out senior players mistakes, with the idea that it'd set an example and avoid beating up on the younger guys:
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11607679'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11607679</a>
 
Seemed like a smart idea to me.
 
As for the ref whinge, if it were any other ref I'd agree with you but Lees is completely out of his depth and Sanzaar needs to wake the fuck up and realise that.
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I didn't say he had to single individuals out, but he could have addressed it as a team issue - the Blues camp talked all week in buildup about decision making and nailing opportunities - something they failed to do vs the Canes the week prior. Well guess what - it was more of the same vs the Reds.

The Silver Fern

Reds v Blues