Cricket - Best ever etc
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@antipodean said in Australia v India:
@nzzp said in Australia v India:
@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
but it's fucking shit being a bowler. video reviews on every delivery in case you over step. hard ball for 50 overs, but no shining. flat, lifeless pitches. rapid outfields. Going for a run a ball is now seen as a good day out.
shortened boundaries, and the insane bats the batters get. honestly, we should have bowlers getting to choose the ball they use, with higher seams and the ability to shine/deface. It's one sided, and that doens't make for consistently good entertainment.
I enjoyed cricket when it took considerable talent to protect one's wicket, let alone make runs. IMO it's far too slanted in the batsman's favour because run rate is what keeps the crowd entertained these days.
Same.
I only really watch test cricket these days, the jeopardy of loisng your wicket makes the sport interesting.Got to applaud the new shots invented and mastered over last 20 years. Tendulkar ramp, Marillier or Dishan scoop. Pietersen switch hit, everyone reverse sweeping.
But watching the ball sail over 60m boundaries with bazooka bats, nah.
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@antipodean said in Australia v India:
I enjoyed cricket when it took considerable talent to protect one's wicket, let alone make runs. IMO it's far too slanted in the batsman's favour because run rate is what keeps the crowd entertained these days.
With a few exceptions of course.
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
Every time I watch highlights of Johnson in that series, I almost feel sorry for the Poms.
he was evil
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@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
@NTA said in Australia v India:
Every time I watch highlights of Johnson in that series, I almost feel sorry for the Poms.
he was evil
Just found it for that series. The mo, the haircut, the compact runup and throat-ripping pace.
It is a wonder mofos didn't get seriously injured.
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@mariner4life sucking out souls one delivery at a time. Good video this one as well.
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@akan004 said in Australia v India:
@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
@akan004 said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
Is Steve Smith the second best batsman ever now ?
Serious question, his record continues to baffle me but the numbers just don’t lie.
Of course millions of semi literate Indians will argue Tendulkar or Kohli online aye @NTA.....
But Smith really is a freak.
Hard to say. He plays on roads compared to batsmen in previous eras and the bowling now is nowhere near as good as it was in the 90s and early 00s imo. As a fan, I would pay good money to see Lara, Tendulkar, Crowe, Mark Waugh and Kohli bat, not so much Steve Smith.
i disagree about the quality of the bowling now, i actually think it's as good as ever. the issue is the weighted advantage technology is playing in favour of batsmen. Cricket balls haven't changed. everything else has.
Agree on your second point but I do think the bowlers back then were better. Granted that today's bowlers have it tougher due to everything being in the favour of the batsmen, but I would still rate the bowlers from that period higher than the current ones purely based on skill and variety.
We had Warne, Akram, Ambrose, Donald, McGrath, Younis, Lee, Akhtar, McGill, Kumble, Murali, Mushtaq Ahmed etc back then. That takes some beating imo.
i take the point, but that's like 25 years of players there
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@mariner4life And Kumble was shit. Averaged 20 at home and double that overseas.
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@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
@MN5 i have problems saying yes to that
but the body of work gets longer and longer now, but little drop off.
i still think Lara is the genius bat of my generation, but Smith's ability to score runs consistently is fucked.
I fucken loved Lara, way more than Tendulkar. He shares my birthday and we’re both left handed and that’s absolutely the only two things we have in common.
Probably due to the fact he batted in a weak team for so much of his career and had to go for it he got fuck all not outs to pad the average compared to others of his generation. Just six compared to Tendulkar ( 33 ) Ponting ( 29 ) Kallis ( 40 ) Dravid ( 32 ). So I think Lara was better than his ( already very impressive ) average if that makes sense
i know what you mean mate.
Math hey, bringing blokes together on the internet since forever
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There’s a reason openers like Gooch, Greenidge and Haynes are regarded as legends despite ‘only’ averaging 42-44. The fast bowlers of that era were exceptional.
It’s a really tough one to gauge, bowlers nowadays are considered great if they nudge the average under 30, then you had a guy like Dale Steyn whose figures compare with the best of the 80s.
The amount of boundaries nowadays compared to what big hitters like Beefy, Viv Richards etc managed in the 80s is a bit ridiculous. Bat technology has made a huge difference.
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Pace bowling has been going ok
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29269215/why-greatest-age-fast-bowling-60-years
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@Chris-B said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
Is Steve Smith the second best batsman ever now ?
Serious question, his record continues to baffle me but the numbers just don’t lie.
Of course millions of semi literate Indians will argue Tendulkar or Kohli online aye @NTA.....
But Smith really is a freak.
Kohli's pretty freaky as well.
Smith probably shades him in test cricket, but Kohli is phenomenal across all three formats.
Kohli has played 250 ODIs, he's averaging 59 and has been past 50 on more than 100 occasions.
I think test record > odi record will always be the yardstick.
That’s why Steve will always get first choice when they slice the Turkey at the Waugh family Xmas get togethers. I say that as a massive fan of ‘junior’ as well....
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
There’s a reason openers like Gooch, Greenidge and Haynes are regarded as legends despite ‘only’ averaging 42-44. The fast bowlers of that era were exceptional.
Average isn't a great metric by which to judge a career IMO.
One thing that tends to be overlooked is the tail-off in the last few years of a batsman's career, and how the decision on when to retire impacts their end numbers.
I'd put Ricky Ponting right up there in terms of the best I've seen. He ended on an average of about 52, but he would have been well within his rights to retire two years earlier than he did, with an average of about 55 or 56. Instead he hung around for the good of the team even though he was well past his prime.
The same will happen to Smith. He won't sustain his current numbers, unless he decides to retire tomorrow in which case he'll be an all time great.
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@barbarian Not in my books he won't be. Anyone with a ball tampering suspension cannot be accorded "greatness" in what is supposed to be a gentlemen's game.
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@akan004 said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
Is Steve Smith the second best batsman ever now ?
Serious question, his record continues to baffle me but the numbers just don’t lie.
Of course millions of semi literate Indians will argue Tendulkar or Kohli online aye @NTA.....
But Smith really is a freak.
Hard to say. He plays on roads compared to batsmen in previous eras and the bowling now is nowhere near as good as it was in the 90s and early 00s imo. As a fan, I would pay good money to see Lara, Tendulkar, Crowe, Mark Waugh and Kohli bat, not so much Steve Smith.
Good points, especially about the more conducive conditions batsmen get these days. I marvel at Smith and his mental ability, that patience against Wags was something else. I reckon he's honing his "answer" to every line and length, and where to score and the risk from there. All that's evident on modern dry, brown roads. I hate his off side shots but the sheer amount of runs so consistently makes my head spin.
But always a niggling doubt that the previous era's bowlers would work him out and exploit all his movements and shuffling. Different pitches too.
Maybe not but if his batting style is copied by learners, I reckon they won't last a season 🙂 -
@antipodean said in Modern batting averages:
@nzzp said in Australia v India:
@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
but it's fucking shit being a bowler. video reviews on every delivery in case you over step. hard ball for 50 overs, but no shining. flat, lifeless pitches. rapid outfields. Going for a run a ball is now seen as a good day out.
shortened boundaries, and the insane bats the batters get. honestly, we should have bowlers getting to choose the ball they use, with higher seams and the ability to shine/deface. It's one sided, and that doens't make for consistently good entertainment.
I enjoyed cricket when it took considerable talent to protect one's wicket, let alone make runs. IMO it's far too slanted in the batsman's favour because run rate is what keeps the crowd entertained these days.
I'm not convinced Smith would get away with his technique 20+ years ago.
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i want to think that, but then...
what makes him hard to bowl to is his patience. He will sit there and leave and leave and leave until you try something else, bowl too straight, and he hits you through midwicket. his eye is incredible, and surely that brings him undone first. He doesn't have rock solid technique to fall back on when his eye starts to go.
he's scored against pace, he's scored against swing, he's scored against spin. He just scores runs. A bit more variation in the pitch might do it. maybe. i just have to accept the guy is a freak.
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@Chris-B said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
Is Steve Smith the second best batsman ever now ?
Serious question, his record continues to baffle me but the numbers just don’t lie.
Of course millions of semi literate Indians will argue Tendulkar or Kohli online aye @NTA.....
But Smith really is a freak.
Kohli's pretty freaky as well.
Smith probably shades him in test cricket, but Kohli is phenomenal across all three formats.
Kohli has played 250 ODIs, he's averaging 59 and has been past 50 on more than 100 occasions.
I think test record > odi record will always be the yardstick.
That’s why Steve will always get first choice when they slice the Turkey at the Waugh family Xmas get togethers. I say that as a massive fan of ‘junior’ as well....
Can't disagree on that - though Kohli is only a gnat's dick behind Smith.
But, Kohli's dominance of ODI stats - well, it's not quite Bradmanesque, but it's fucking impressive.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282911.html
Compare him to Bevan who was sort of a yardstick of ODI excellence.
Mike made 6 hundreds and Kohli has made 43!
I'd say Kohli, de Villiers and Dhoni are top of the ODI pantheon now.
