2020 Māori All Blacks
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@nostrildamus said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
Forgive my ignorance: I would have thought Cook Island Māori heritage is irrelevant for Māori All Black selection?
Has it always been the case ?
im not sure of the exact technicalities either but cook islands maori are from the same heritage and they are NZ citizens so i guess why not ?
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@kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.
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Moana Pasifika squad
Forwards: Alamanda Motuga (Counties Manukau, Tonga), Daniel Lienert-Brown (Canterbury, Highlanders, Samoa), Gerard Cowley-Tuioti (North Harbour, Blues, Samoa), Jordan Lay (Bay of Plenty, Bristol, Samoa), Leni Apisai (Auckland, Samoa/Tuvalu), Marino Mikaele-Tu’u (Hawkes Bay, Highlanders, Samoa), Michael Alaalatoa (Manawatu, Crusaders, Samoa), Naitoa Ah Kuoi (Wellington, Chiefs, Samoa), Nasi Manu (Otago, Tonga), Pita Gus Sowakula (Taranaki, Chiefs, Fiji), Samipeni Finau (Waikato, Tonga) Samisoni Taukieaho (Waikato, Chiefs, Tonga), Sione Mafielo (North Harbour, Blues, Tonga), Zane Kapeli (Bay of Plenty, Tonga).
Backs: Asaeli Tikoroituma (North Harbour, Fiji), Dwyane Polataivao ( Ta$man, Utah Warriors, Samoa), Etene Nanai-Seturo (Counties Manukau, Chiefs, Samoa), Fetuli Paea ( Ta$man, Highlanders Tonga), Folau Fakatava (Hawke’s Bay, Highlanders, Tonga), Jone Macilai (Northland, Fiji), Josh Ioane (Otago, Highlanders, NZ/Samoa), Leicester Fainga’anuku ( Ta$man, Crusaders, Tonga), Salesi Rayasi (Auckland, Hurricanes, Fiji/Samoa), Stephen Perofeta (Taranaki, Blues, Samoa), Tomasi Alosio (Wellington, Samoa), Vince Aso (Wellington, Hurricanes, Samoa)
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@Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.
So does a Cook Islands Maori have Maori whakapapa ?
Genuine question because I don’t know , not saying you are wrong by the way.
My understanding is he must have that plus be a representative of New Zealand rugby union and have Maori whakapapa .
Very different to English selection
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@Bovidae I find the addition of countries by Stuff a bit weird. It suggests that all of them are eligible to play for those nations, which isn't true. The language nerd in me says they should have used the adjective instead to indicate heritage (Tongan, instead of Tonga, etc).
Here's the official media release, by the way:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/historic-first-squad-for-moana-pasifika-unveiled -
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Yep! I had a quick look and I think - without knowing who exactly will have a SR contract for 2021 - only Alamanda Motuga * (Counties Manukau), Jordan Lay * (Bay of Plenty), Leni Apisai (Auckland), Nasi Manu * (Otago), Samipeni Finau (Waikato), Asaeli Tikoroituma * (North Harbour), Dwyane Polataivao * ( Ta$man), Jone Macilai (Northland) and Tomasi Alosio **(Wellington) would be available for the Moana Pasifika SR side if it would play in 2021. That list may be different in 2022, though.
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@kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.
@Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.
Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".
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@Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb I also don't have the answer, but my guess would be that a player must have New Zealand Maori heritage, not just Maori heritage. I don't think citizenship changes that. Cook Islands and NZ are still different countries, despite Cook Islanders being entitled to NZ citizenship.
@Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.
Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage, but I'm inclined to agree with the "no".
yep get that part on the citizenship , so I guess it comes down to the genealogy if the player was NZ qualified , and you are probably right
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@Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
Not all Pakeha. Not all of them have English or even UK heritage
Part of my point.
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pretty sweet jersey
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@kiwiinmelb said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@Yeetyaah said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb no. Imagine saying all Pākeha are eligible for selection for the English team? It's a completely different country and the languages do have differences.
So does a Cook Islands Maori have Maori whakapapa ?
Genuine question because I don’t know , not saying you are wrong by the way.
My understanding is he must have that plus be a representative of New Zealand rugby union and have Maori whakapapa .
Very different to English selection
As @Stargazer notes - no. Don't let the term 'Maori' fool you, best just to think of them as Cook Islanders/Cookies, like Samoans and Tongans.
The only way they're eligible for the NZ Maori team is if they have NZ Maori whakapapa as well.
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@Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
So we can scratch Leni Apisai and Josh Ioane from the list of potential Maori All Blacks for this game.
I wonder if they got to choose or if they were assigned one squad or the other?
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@Stargazer said in 2020 Māori All Blacks:
His Wellington profile doesn't provide any info. On his Highlanders profile (in the video), he says that he's from Raratonga, Cook Islands, but that he grew up in Auckland.
On his Facebook profile, home is Cook Islands.
On his Instagram profile, he only has the Cook Island flag.I haven't been able to find an official profile (from a team or his) that says he's (NZ) Maori.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.Checked with my Rarotongan flatmate last night and he has recanted on TBN's eligibility just a smidgeon. He did say that TBN's great grandfather (or probably great great grandfather) was a NZ Maori that went to the Cook Islands in the late 1800s/early 1900s to help draft some sort of legal document assigning the Cook Islands people to the right to have NZ Citizenship etc. When questioned why, he (my flatmate is currently doing some sort of doctorate on the history of the Cook Islands) did say that the NZ Maori language and the CI native language is quite similar. So there it is TBN does have some NZ Maori heritage if my mate is to be believed.
