'Super Rugby' 2021
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
As if NZ have the patience to make a Blues duplicate work. It's a 20 year+ exercise. You lot are already throwing your toys out the pram at having to play the Rebels and Force.
we don't want that team. Try to keep up
Nor do we want the other two.
If player numbers increase and the quality is there - then add an additional team. Until then, no.
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Well, I for one do want a 'duplicate' Blues team (North Auckland). As well as a Lower NI team, and a split Chiefs team.
I want an 8 team domestic pro comp.
I'm not in the camp of worrying about the diluting talent pool. I'm in the camp of wanting to give a crap about who the opposition is.
Crusaders would need to be weakened though. They are warming up All Blacks on the bench while my team has a couple of subs I've never even heard of.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
As if NZ have the patience to make a Blues duplicate work. It's a 20 year+ exercise. You lot are already throwing your toys out the pram at having to play the Rebels and Force.
There is already an identity there, and a pyramid of 50 odd amateur clubs and 2 NPC teams.
The split has already been done previously (Auckland and North Harbour) and the rivalry was almost instant.
North Harbour was part of Auckland for 100 years before splitting off in 1985. 3 years later in 1988 Auckland and NH played a sold out 45k Ranfurly Shield match in Eden Park. And the 10th year of NH's existance they played Auckland in the most spiteful NPC final in history.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Well, I for one do want a 'duplicate' Blues team (North Auckland). As well as a Lower NI team, and a split Chiefs team.
I want an 8 team domestic pro comp.
So you’re a Crusaders and/or highlanders supporter? Divide up the NI franchises and Crusaders win every year ad nausuem
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Well, I for one do want a 'duplicate' Blues team (North Auckland). As well as a Lower NI team, and a split Chiefs team.
I want an 8 team domestic pro comp.
So you’re a Crusaders and/or highlanders supporter? Divide up the NI franchises and Crusaders win every year ad nausuem
....that definitely doesn't make them a Highlanders supporter...but yeah...that does sound like a plan to secure another decade of Saders titles
im not worried about diluting things too much...but dont want one team and currently the best team...to avoid dilution
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Well, I for one do want a 'duplicate' Blues team (North Auckland). As well as a Lower NI team, and a split Chiefs team.
I want an 8 team domestic pro comp.
So you’re a Crusaders and/or highlanders supporter? Divide up the NI franchises and Crusaders win every year ad nausuem
Canes supporter. Although BOP supporter at NPC level. Original Chiefs were a bastard frankenstein that never caught me.
North Auckland: Auckland: Northland and North Harbour
Auckland: Auckland and Counties
Waikato Chiefs: They lose Counties and BOP
BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)
LNI: They regain Taranaki, lose Wellington, Wairarapa, Horowhenua.
Hurricanes: (Wellington, Wairarapa, Horowhenua)
Crusaders: unchanged
Highlanders: unchanged. -
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@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
a Lower NI team
We could call them the Vikings.
In all seriousness.
They could. But won't because of the history. However, probably hardly anyone would be bothered, unlike when they tried to amalgamate historic NPC unions.
They already have a shared regional sporting identity through Hurricanes and CD cricket.
I'm just re-hashing my posting from about 30 odd pages back.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)
did you see the BOP team on the weekend? What would that do v the Crusaders?
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
North Auckland: Auckland: Northland and North Harbour
Auckland: Auckland and Counties
Waikato Chiefs: They lose Counties and BOPSo Auckland with the largest player base adds CM but Waikato and BOP go it alone?
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)
did you see the BOP team on the weekend? What would that do v the Crusaders?
Get thrashed, Crusaders got thrashed repeatedly in 1996. But getting thrashed is only temporary if the structure of the competition doesn't entrench it.
Although the thread is Super Rugby 2021, my proposals are for a permanent structure not a one-off quick fix.
Lots of teams will get thrashed in 2021 by the Crusaders in the likely format. 3 of the Australians plus the Pasifika team will get reamed by them. But, worse, that will probably be a permanent state of affairs. Pasifika because of money and Australian franchises because they're trying to create 5 teams outs of 3 teams worth of talent, hamstringing themselves with players needing to be Australian qualified or potentially qualified, in a comp that includes another country creating only 5 teams but out of 6 teams worth of talent.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Well, I for one do want a 'duplicate' Blues team (North Auckland). As well as a Lower NI team, and a split Chiefs team.
I want an 8 team domestic pro comp.
So you’re a Crusaders and/or highlanders supporter? Divide up the NI franchises and Crusaders win every year ad nausuem
Canes supporter. Although BOP supporter at NPC level. Original Chiefs were a bastard frankenstein that never caught me.
North Auckland: Auckland: Northland and North Harbour
Auckland: Auckland and Counties
Waikato Chiefs: They lose Counties and BOP
BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)
LNI: They regain Taranaki, lose Wellington, Wairarapa, Horowhenua.
Hurricanes: (Wellington, Wairarapa, Horowhenua)
Crusaders: unchanged
Highlanders: unchanged.Bit mean to just leave the poo out altogether isn't it?
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)
did you see the BOP team on the weekend? What would that do v the Crusaders?
Get thrashed, Crusaders got thrashed repeatedly in 1996. But getting thrashed is only temporary if the structure of the competition doesn't entrench it.
Although the thread is Super Rugby 2021, my proposals are for a permanent structure not a one-off quick fix.
Lots of teams will get thrashed in 2021 by the Crusaders in the likely format. 3 of the Australians plus the Pasifika team will get reamed by them. But, worse, that will probably be a permanent state of affairs. Pasifika because of money and Australian franchises because they're trying to create 5 teams outs of 3 teams worth of talent, hamstringing themselves with players needing to be Australian qualified or potentially qualified, in a comp that includes another country creating only 5 teams but out of 6 teams worth of talent.
success does beget success though...because people want to come and play for the winning team and its not like we have draft systems for new payer like other sports, so diluting the current teams whilst leaving the Saders...
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@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
North Auckland: Auckland: Northland and North Harbour
Auckland: Auckland and Counties
Waikato Chiefs: They lose Counties and BOPSo Auckland with the largest player base adds CM but Waikato and BOP go it alone?
I don't mind if Auckland splits in 3*, and BOP stays in Chiefs. As long as it is an 8 team domestic pro comp. In fact it is probably better option but would create more disruption at the NPC level.
But minimal viability is 8 pro teams. Infact ideal number is 8 teams as per NZRUs desired Trans- Ta$man structure.
*However, in my mind that would involve creating 2 new NPC unions. As can't have a union and franchise being the same. As would make the NPC null and void basically. Auckland and Waitakere would split and Manukau and Franklin would split (Auckland and Counties border would need to be re-drawn - along lines of the historic Manukau CIty Council. So Pakuranga, Otahuhu, Manukau Rovers go south).
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@Rapido It looks like you are re-arranging the NPC in the North and sticking with Super in the south.
We have things about right as it is with regard to high quality teams. If you want to add more you dilute the talent and then run into problems of how to dilute only the NI because to bring the Crusaders on par you'd have to ditch Ta$man from there and send them where?
You can never quite win with our geography and populations but years of Super have shown us that the imabalances are through recruiting, not population.
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@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido It looks like you are re-arranging the NPC in the North and sticking with Super in the south.
We have things about right as it is with regard to high quality teams. If you want to add more you dilute the talent and then run into problems of how to dilute only the NI because to bring the Crusaders on par you'd have to ditch Ta$man from there and send them where?
You can never quite win with our geography and populations but years of Super have shown us that the imabalances are through recruiting, not population.
See my post above about NPC re-draw in north. For possible franshise border changes.
I don't care about diluted talent. As long as the diluted talent become evenish and the teams are from somewhere I care about.
Diluted talent from a place 8 hours flight away in team called something as bland as "Western", and a nickname as 90s as the "Force" wearing the same kit as 4 other teams in the comp. Then I care that it its diluted.
Or if you're not sure if a team like the Kings is a genuine attempt to establish a team or is a political box ticking 'quotas/transformation' exercise. Then I care that it its diluted.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido It looks like you are re-arranging the NPC in the North and sticking with Super in the south.
We have things about right as it is with regard to high quality teams. If you want to add more you dilute the talent and then run into problems of how to dilute only the NI because to bring the Crusaders on par you'd have to ditch Ta$man from there and send them where?
You can never quite win with our geography and populations but years of Super have shown us that the imabalances are through recruiting, not population.
See my post above about NPC re-draw in north. For possible franshise border changes.
It is still crazy IMO.
You are still leaving two of the top provinces wedded while splitting and re-shaping everyone else.
Splitting Ta$man and Canterbury wouldn't be an option either. Ta$man have built from being a feeder to the Saders. Take that away and they lose a lot of their attraction to players. -
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido It looks like you are re-arranging the NPC in the North and sticking with Super in the south.
We have things about right as it is with regard to high quality teams. If you want to add more you dilute the talent and then run into problems of how to dilute only the NI because to bring the Crusaders on par you'd have to ditch Ta$man from there and send them where?
You can never quite win with our geography and populations but years of Super have shown us that the imabalances are through recruiting, not population.
See my post above about NPC re-draw in north. For possible franshise border changes.
It is still crazy IMO.
You are still leaving two of the top provinces wedded while splitting and re-shaping everyone else.
Splitting Ta$man and Canterbury wouldn't be an option either. Ta$man have built from being a feeder to the Saders. Take that away and they lose a lot of their attraction to players.What? Who is splitting Ta$man?
