2023 (expanded) World Cup in South Africa
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555182" data-time="1454116236">
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<p>It's not my web-site, dude. Why don't you write a letter to them expressing your grievances. I'm just trying to obliged everybody by posting the links that are apparently required to back up every single comment I make on this forum - even though nobody else seems to be doing this. I've actually come up with quite a lot of data to support my comments, unlike most of the self-appointed senior detectives around here.</p>
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<p>So it's everyone else's' fault you're lazy or inept?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555182" data-time="1454116236">
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<p>It's not my web-site, dude. Why don't you write a letter to them expressing your grievances. I'm just trying to obliged everybody by posting the links that are apparently required to back up every single comment I make on this forum - even though nobody else seems to be doing this. I've actually come up with quite a lot of data to support my comments, unlike most of the self-appointed senior detectives around here.</p>
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<p>I have provided sources on factual things I have asserted.</p>
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<p>You have asserted that Ireland would be too small to accommodate a 20 team tournament. Where would they all fit - on top of each other.</p>
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<p>When verifiable data was provided to you showing the contrary, you ignored that and persisted with your claim. </p>
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<p>You can say what you want about the weather in Ireland. And I'll happily correct you with my personal experience. No one is debating it's the same, of course it's different to South Africa. As to whether the weather is better is a personal opinion. Rugby is played in different temperatures around the world. </p>
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<p>By the way, what country are you from? What's your own personal experience of rugby - playing it or following it?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555175" data-time="1454115884">
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<p>What if I can't be arsed? </p>
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<p>Then piss off and peddle your brand of BS somewhere else! </p>
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<p>Debate and discuss, but if you talk shit, expect to be called on it, and asked to back it up.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="555185" data-time="1454116341">
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<p>That's all you had to say... :)</p>
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<p>Thanks. Some things I do google, but I'm an avid reader of both online and printed material, so of course I can't provide references for every comment I make. That's an absurd ploy to derail the discussion.</p>
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<p>Anyway, I did provide a link (unsatisfactory to some though it may have been) supporting my comment about South African crowds at Super Rugby games being the biggest in domestic competition anywhere in the world - including Ireland. That surely reflects the amount of interest there is in the game there - ie passion.</p>
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<p>"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">By the way, what country are you from? What's your own personal experience of rugby - playing it or following it?"</span></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Grew up in NZ and played my rugby there. Also played a season of league in Aussie. I later got into sports journalism. But I've been abroad for around 20 years now, currently in Turkey, as someone already pointed out.</span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555199" data-time="1454117309"><p>Thanks. Some things I do google, but I'm an avid reader of both online and printed material, so of course I can't provide references for every comment I make. That's an absurd ploy to derail the discussion.<br>
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Anyway, I did provide a link (unsatisfactory to some though it may have been) supporting my comment about South African crowds at Super Rugby games being the biggest in domestic competition anywhere in the world - including Ireland. That surely reflects the amount of interest there is in the game there - ie passion.<br>
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"<span style="color:#282828;"><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">By the way, what country are you from? What's your own personal experience of rugby - playing it or following it?"</span></span><br>
<br><span style="color:#282828;"><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Grew up in NZ and played my rugby there. Also played a season of league in Aussie. I later got into sports journalism. But I've been abroad for around 20 years now, currently in Turkey, as someone already pointed out.</span></span></p></blockquote>
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You say you're a journalist of some sort but dont understand how you can get into trouble asserting something as a fact without proof? What kind of newspaper accepts an article without verifiable sources? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555199" data-time="1454117309">
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<p>Thanks. Some things I do google, but I'm an avid reader of both online and printed material, so of course I can't provide references for every comment I make. That's an absurd ploy to derail the discussion.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, I did provide a link (unsatisfactory to some though it may have been) supporting my comment about South African crowds at Super Rugby games being the biggest in domestic competition anywhere in the world - including Ireland. That surely reflects the amount of interest there is in the game there - ie passion.</p>
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<p>"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">By the way, what country are you from? What's your own personal experience of rugby - playing it or following it?"</span></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Grew up in NZ and played my rugby there. Also played a season of league in Aussie. I later got into sports journalism. But I've been abroad for around 20 years now, currently in Turkey, as someone already pointed out.</span></p>
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<p>I don't doubt that South Africa have some of the best attendances in club rugby - in south Africa.</p>
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<p>However, you stated this in the context of SA fans being more passionate than Irish ones as if somehow this made a difference. So what if they are? </p>
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<p>83,000 fans turned out to watch a club game between Leinster and Munster out of a population of 2.5m approx. 40,000 Stormers fans turned out to watch a game out of a population of how many millions?</p>
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<p>Are you arguing that you measure passion as a proportion of population? Or how many times over that you could fill 12 stadiums with a finite capacity? Or what?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="555201" data-time="1454117817">
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<p>You say you're a journalist of some sort but dont understand how you can get into trouble asserting something as a fact without proof? What kind of newspaper accepts an article without verifiable sources?</p>
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<p>Do you personally keep a record of such things? Most mortal human beings just accumulate knowledge through reading - then share it with others in amiable discussion.</p>
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<p>Also, I haven't been a journalist for almost 20 years, although I do still contribute articles to various newspapers from time to time.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555203" data-time="1454118004"><p>Do you personally keep a record of such things? Most mortal human beings just accumulate knowledge through reading - then share it with others in amiable discussion.</p></blockquote>
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Aimiable discussion doesn't include making comments like your ones about the 2011 rwc with no proof, you were trolling with that and got shown up as a liar when you were called on it. If it was such a widely held opinion you'd have sources to back it up instead you got all pouty again and told me to prove you wrong.<br><br>
Not exactly the behaviour of someone looking for an amiable discussion is it? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="555202" data-time="1454118003">
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<p>I don't doubt that South Africa have some of the best attendances in club rugby - in south Africa.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>However, you stated this in the context of SA fans being more passionate than Irish ones as if somehow this made a difference. So what if they are? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>83,000 fans turned out to watch a club game between Leinster and Munster out of a population of 2.5m approx. 40,000 Stormers fans turned out to watch a game out of a population of how many millions?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you arguing that you measure passion as a proportion of population? Or how many times over that you could fill 12 stadiums with a finite capacity? Or what?</p>
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<p>Well, I'm not sure how else we can measure passion other than by attendances. Other than that, I can only go by what I see on TV, and I'm not sure I've ever seen more passionate support for a RWC than 1995.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555206" data-time="1454118403">
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<p>Well, I'm not sure how else we can measure passion other than by attendances. Other than that, I can only go by what I see on TV, and <strong>I'm not sure I've ever seen more passionate support for a RWC than 1995.</strong></p>
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<p>Were you there?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555206" data-time="1454118403">
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<p>Well, I'm not sure how else we can measure passion other than by attendances. Other than that, I can only go by what I see on TV, and I'm not sure I've ever seen more passionate support for a RWC than 1995.</p>
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<p>Fair enough. But since there hasn't been an RWC hosted in Italy or Ireland on their own, it's difficult to compare.</p>
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<p>But let's look at South Africa's record of passion/attendance at RWC matches, where they are only one of 20 teams participating. And RWC 1995 is the only yardstick for that.</p>
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<p>Oddly, despite the passion you observed on TV, according to data provided on the RWC Wikipedia page, the 1995 tournament was the second least successful in filling stadia - 77% of available capacity. In a minor contrast, the ones that Ireland were involved with "hosting" marginally were 79% and 83%. The most recent one in England achieved a staggering 95% of capacity, apparently.</p>
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<p>In addition, re your earlier criticism about low attendances at 2 matches (3,000 & 9,500) held in Ireland in two different world cups, it's notable that in RWC 1995,</p>
<p>Can v Rom (8,000),</p>
<p>Aus v Can (16,000),</p>
<p>Aus v Rom (15,000),</p>
<p>Italy v Western Sam (7,800),</p>
<p>W Sam v Arg (7,900),</p>
<p>Arg v Italy (7,500),</p>
<p>Japan v Wal (15,000),</p>
<p>Irl v Jap (15,000),</p>
<p>Far v Ivory Coast (10,000) </p>
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<p>were a feature of the pool stages with some of the stadia used (e.g. Boet Erasmus) only filled to 25% capacit. Remarkably, a quarter-final between France and Ireland only had 20,000 attending in a 52,00 seater. Even more remarkably, some of south Africa's own games did not get full houses either e.g. SA v France. </p>
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<p>SA however, has not just had problems of under-filled stadia at sports matches, of more concern is where overcrowding has been allowed to happen. Whilst your earlier example of waterlogged pitches in Northern Ireland stopping local teams playing a football match at a local ground may be an indicator that it rains in Ireland sometimes, and therefore the country's weather is unreliable for hosting a RWC, you also need to consider the 2001 stampede at a match at Ellis Park that killed 43 people due to overcrowding as a result of security guards being bribed and allowing ticketless people into the ground. It tragically mirrored a similar overcrowding disaster in 1991 at a nearby stadium in which 41 people were crushed to death. </p>
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<p>Re RWC1995 and its undeniable component of passion, though not necessarily matched in attendances, you have to acknowledge the context and history behind that tournament - re apartheid and Mandela's ascendancy. Given your background in sports writing, what's your view on whether the same circumstances would apply in 2023, or would the increasingly strident SA government manage to alienate the largely white fanbase with their transition programmes?</p> -
I think it's farewell to our Ginger Prince.<br><br>
When you return under a different name you'll probably last longer if you don't lie and troll, try and keep the bullshit about your past ( you played a season of league in Aussie? Oh as if)to a minimum too. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="555199" data-time="1454117309">
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<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Grew up in NZ and played my rugby there. Also played a season of league in Aussie. I later got into sports journalism. But I've been abroad for around 20 years now, currently in Turkey, as someone already pointed out.</span></p>
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<p>So you're basically admitting to be the mentally unhinged freak, as evidenced by your username - the very same name of the object of your affection. You remember her. The girl who doesn't want anything to do with you (and rightly so)</p>
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<p>Why don't you tell us all how you can't come back to NZ for fear of being arrested at the border, you raving lunatic?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Smudge" data-cid="555229" data-time="1454126363">
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<p>So you're basically admitting to be the mentally unhinged freak, as evidenced by your username - the very same name of the object of your affection. You remember her. The girl who doesn't want anything to do with you (and rightly so)</p>
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<p>Why don't you tell us all how you can't come back to NZ for fear of being arrested at the border, you raving lunatic?</p>
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<p>Say wha?</p>
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<p>Has this thread just turned into a Scooby Doo mystery?</p> -
Jeez - that was out of left field. <br><br>
I await the next instalment in the morning. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="555233" data-time="1454127481">
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<p>Jeez - that was out of left field.<br><br>
I await the next instalment in the morning.</p>
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<p>I await my next instalment in about 8 hours time after a night on the turps....</p>
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<p>Let's just say "Rowan" is not someone who is welcomed by rugby forum adminstrators across the internet.</p>
