The future of NZ Rugby
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@antipodean said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Higgins said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@nzzp Auckland may have one third of the country's population but about one third of that is either of Asian (mostly Chinses) or Indian origin/ethnicity neither of which are all that interested in rugby (the Japanese aside)
just be careful of sweeping generalisations. The lads who drew me into Eden Park (and are 25 year+ sesaon ticket holders) are indians; no reason the Rugby Religion can't sweep up folks from any ethnicity. Rugby's problem is more that it's hard to get into for damn near anyone, regardless of where you're from.
Do their kids play?
all the boys did, some to late teens.
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5 Super teams, 1 in each major centre at the time - seems a sensible decision simply based on that alone. We've never just considered commercial factors - grass roots and regional rugby is an important part of the mix.
There also the point that our main commercial product is the All Blacks, and we've done well in keeping them dominant.
Ultimately though, this is the joy of professional sport run by a non-profit member-driven incorporated society. Sometimes, they make decisions based on non-commercial factors because at their heart, they are not a commercial organisation.
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@kev said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia NPC is the competition that matters. It is the competition that has made NZ rugby great. Take that away and in 20 years we will be like Scotland. We can’t compete with those that have more money.
In the past yes. NZ has changed significantly in the past 20years and rugby needs to change with it.
NPC has only been around since the 70s so there was a different structure of the game before that.
Evolution basically.
If we just keep spinning the wheels it certainly will be dead before long.
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@Tim said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
A real eye opener for me was listening to a rugby contract lawyer on a podcast a couple of years ago. He basically suggested that NZ Rugby should axe payments to NPC players in order to fund a professional women's competition, "because we just have to". That is the calibre of person who works in NZ rugby.
Of course Scotty Stevenson loved it.
Oh ffs.
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@Kirwan said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Nepia Some of the problems of the Blues has been infighting between Northland, Harbour and Auckland.
On the Shore and Northland, they see the Blues as Auckland dominated, so you lose fan engagement there.
So two problems solved straight away.
Then you factor in the marketing advantages of local rivalries now being on the field, and being able to retain their talent and you have a better product.
Or you could prop up dwindling populations in Southland and Dunedin...
We don't have the server space to list the rest.
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@Kirwan couldn’t disagree more. You keep pushing all the money and resources to the elite of the game and you will be left with nothing. If provincial rugby dies, so does club rugby then all you will be left with is elite school boys, academies and Super 15 rugby for large cities.
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@kev said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@Kirwan couldn’t disagree more. You keep pushing all the money and resources to the elite of the game and you will be left with nothing. If provincial rugby dies, so does club rugby then all you will be left with is elite school boys, academies and Super 15 rugby for large cities.
It all depends on what you want the NPC for. There's a solid argument for a semi-pro comp, played in smallish stadia in front of local fans. I've always been really skeptical about Super players in it; they are fulltime pros, and unbalance the comp. To compete, you push the players to basically go pro without being paid. Not sure that's the right answer.
NZR have devalued Super, treated fans like they're irrelevant, and completely devalued the NPC. Let's not even talk about Club rugby - anyone but hardcore fanatics still even following it? No surprises they wound up here, it's sad but inevitable. It's taken 25 years of professionalsim to largely kill the sport, and it's goddamn sad
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@Donsteppa said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
It’s interesting that NZ Rugby is confronting the big issues now that there is a new CEO...
Tew tried early in his term to make smilar moves and rationalize the NPC but several unions put themselves ahead of the national interest. Hopefully Robinson has greater success.
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@rotated keep banging that drum...there was manipulation of criteria designed to keep one team in and drop 2 others...granted one team has done nothing with the opportunity, while one has made every post a winner, and the team they were trying to save has done little too...
If it had been a fair process then while gutting you could eventually stomach it, but it wasnt so fighting it was the right thing to do.
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@taniwharugby you and I had some good arguments back then, you blinkered fuck...
I think it has been proven that Northland, Southland, Hawkes Bay, and the abomination from the top of the South island should have been cut free a decade ago.
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@mariner4life you call it arguing, I call it educating 😎
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@taniwharugby said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@mariner4life you call it arguing, I call it educating 😎
TR will again today be running with the blinkers on...
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@mariner4life speaking of blinkers...any good tops?
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@taniwharugby said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@mariner4life speaking of blinkers...any good tops?
I do my best work late. Doing the form is overrated
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Some people have such unrealistic expectations. Many people criticising the NZRU would have bankrupt the game in 5 years had they been in charge.
NZRU have been criticised for devaluing Mitre Ten Cup by having Super Rugby. We would never be able to retain our top players without Super Rugby. No one in this thread has actually come up with one good solution.
Internationally speaking, it is not true at all that the NZRU does not value the grass roots. You can just compare rugby here to the EPL or the NFL. There revenues are just kept by wealthy owners. In New Zealand all revenues flow back to the NZRU.
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@hydro11 said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
Some people have such unrealistic expectations. Many people criticising the NZRU would have bankrupt the game in 5 years had they been in charge.
NZRU have been criticised for devaluing Mitre Ten Cup by having Super Rugby. We would never be able to retain our top players without Super Rugby. No one in this thread has actually come up with one good solution.
Internationally speaking, it is not true at all that the NZRU does not value the grass roots. You can just compare rugby here to the EPL or the NFL. There revenues are just kept by wealthy owners. In New Zealand all revenues flow back to the NZRU.
Absolutely
There isn't enough credit given to the NZRU over the past 15 years. They have managed the game in NZ very well indeed.
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@taniwharugby said in The future of NZ Super Rugby teams & the NPC:
@rotated keep banging that drum...there was manipulation of criteria designed to keep one team in and drop 2 others...granted one team has done nothing with the opportunity, while one has made every post a winner, and the team they were trying to save has done little too...
If it had been a fair process then while gutting you could eventually stomach it, but it wasnt so fighting it was the right thing to do.
I'm not really sure what you are on about. The consensus was (and would argue has always been) that there are too many teams in the top flight and too many players paid professional salaries for our limited resources. Without moving the competition to a sevens format teams either need to be demoted or amalgamated.
You can argue the toss over who those teams should be and why (and for what it's worth teams that seem intent of producing no All Blacks and Heartland quality performances year on year should be given the opportunity to do that where it is the norm) - but I would hope all unions are on board with a cull at the top level if it means preserving a second tier professional competition instead of dragging things down to a semi-pro facade with top tier all unions in tact.
Hopefully the NZRU board - including those who would with interests in provincial unions in the firing line - can put country before province and make the move and see the lawsuits out this time around.
@Kirwan makes a good point. The NPC was only around since the 70s. These 14 unions have no divine right to top flight rugby. It is not entirely clear why Manawatu should be here and not North Otago, Wanganui or even King Country who were a staple not that long ago when I started watching D1 NPC rugby.
All I ask is that the NZRU be given the chance to rationalize the Mitre 10 Cup before disbanding or amaterusing it completely. There should absolutely be a pathway to promotion/relegation (where there isn't now, and the same unions in the firing line would lobby against it) so those unions who are relegated due to a "manipulation of criteria" can rise to the top immediately as their crowd, finances, talent and on field performance carry them there.
