Ardie Savea off to League?
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@Stargazer wasnt his last signing with NZR only a short stint by thier usual standards?
Being a podcast, surely they discussed the topics of conversation and list of questions, or at least his manager vetted questions (or made suggestions?)
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@Nepia said in Ardie Savea off to League:
@voodoo said in Ardie Savea off to League:
I'd have zero issue with players with other heritage representing those nations post an AB career.
I have no issue with that, but if the quote is correct Ardie was saying he'd switch now when he's still a current AB if those opportunities were available.
Yeah, though that issue is solved (for me) by the 1-way movement down a Tier, I.e. if he wants to play for Samoa, go for it, just know you're never pulling on the AB jumper again.
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@voodoo said in Ardie Savea off to League?:
@Nepia said in Ardie Savea off to League:
@voodoo said in Ardie Savea off to League:
I'd have zero issue with players with other heritage representing those nations post an AB career.
I have no issue with that, but if the quote is correct Ardie was saying he'd switch now when he's still a current AB if those opportunities were available.
Yeah, though that issue is solved (for me) by the 1-way movement down a Tier, I.e. if he wants to play for Samoa, go for it, just know you're never pulling on the AB jumper again.
Yup. And also lose your spot in SR as now not eligible for ABs. Which some people will be happy with, go over seas, get big bucks, represent Island heritage. Take up and coming Island players spot 😜
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I think allowing players to move down a tier would be disastrous for the PI unions. Younger players holding out hoping they can crack a tier one team. Has beens getting into tier 2 squads based on reputation.
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@antipodean said in Ardie Savea off to League?:
I think allowing players to move down a tier would be disastrous for the PI unions. Younger players holding out hoping they can crack a tier one team. Has beens getting into tier 2 squads based on reputation.
Agreed, that can't be the solution.
I have some sympathy for the one capped AB, born in Auckland with dual NZ/Tongan passports, who can't play for Tonga because of one game in a black shirt. However, I can't see a better solution other than allowing players with a passport to represent any country they choose, which puts international rugby into the same boat as league, which can't be a solution either.
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@antipodean said in Ardie Savea off to League?:
I think allowing players to move down a tier would be disastrous for the PI unions. Younger players holding out hoping they can crack a tier one team. Has beens getting into tier 2 squads based on reputation.
Isn't younger players holding out for the AB's / Tier 1 what currently happens? Why would they hold out more just because they know that if/once they make a Tier 1 team, they still have an option of playing down? Take away that option and they'll not chase that Tier 1 dream, they'll just settle for Tier 2?
Not sure I buy that logic. Surely it's only relevant to the player who expects to only make the AB's briefly. I honestly don't know that many of these players have chosen a Tier 2 nation in the past.
Edit - just add to this, I think the directional restriction combined with the other rules (residency, stand-down etc) would mean that you really wouldn't see it influencing many people's thinking during their prime.
As for older players clogging the system, yeah, I made that point earlier. I'm not sure how realistic that is or not, but you'd think it's for the Tier 2 nations coaching team to manage in terms of current success and future development.
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Weepu (Knights), Kaino (Bulldogs) and Nonu (Tigers) were both moooted going after missing the 2007 RWC squad - both made more sense than Ardie given they were on the outs at the time and Weepu growing up with the game. Thank god they all didn't!
I agree with @Stargazer 's mate who thinks it's just contract posturing. Maybe the NZRU don't believe he would go to Europe and are negotiating accordingly... but Australia is a lot closer.
It's also not worth missing an opportunity to blame SBW for this somehow.
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Gut feeling , just talk , dont think he is going anywhere,
I personally dont think it would be a good career move anyway , finally learnt his craft as an A grade loose forward ( the potential was always there but it did take a while to get to the level he is now )and his time as a top level player hasnt been that long
And now go to a code and start from scratch and try again,
if you enjoy league , stick to watching it on TV
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I personally don't think he's going anywhere, all a ploy to boost contract negotiations. I actually listened to the full interview and two things stood out to me however. 1. he mentioned that he wasn't too bothered that we lost against England at the World Cup - surely if you put all that work in you must feel a little guttered at the result, but no, Ardie said he wasn't too bothered and that other players felt the same way but were afraid to say infront of the team 2. He seems to have some animosity towards NZ media at how his brother was treated before he went overseas. It seems almost personal to the point that maybe he would go as far as turning his back on the game here in NZ. He was also told off by the Hurricanes for releasing his injury news early, something about decreasing membership numbers.
I don't know, maybe he is over the NZ rugby landscape and does actually want to try his hand at league, I guess we will find out in due course.
On a lighter note and something I didn't know was that if someone is selected to be an All Black they get their very own haka performed to them on their first day in camp.
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@Canes4life after two RWC wins I'm not sure the external pressure and pain of losing was as intense as it was after the 24 year drought
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@Canes4life I wonder if these next generation of ABs feel the pain of a loss as keenly as those before them, given it is a job and for some coming through in the last 10-15 years, has always been a career option for them touted as schoolboy stars, plus as @canefan said, we had won before, so wasnt the pressure on the team.
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@taniwharugby said in Ardie Savea off to League?:
@Canes4life I wonder if these next generation of ABs feel the pain of a loss as keenly as those before them, given it is a job and for some coming through in the last 10-15 years, has always been a career option for them touted as schoolboy stars, plus as @canefan said, we had won before, so wasnt the pressure on the team.
Clearly not if you compare the Lions tour debacle to the Athletic Park loss in 1993.
@canefan said in Ardie Savea off to League?:
@Canes4life after two RWC wins I'm not sure the external pressure and pain of losing was as intense as it was after the 24 year drought
No one in the squad lost a RWC before, and only Read had played prior to the ABs before the Number 1 ranking streak began. SBW and Smith made appearances before the 2011. So it must be a completely different mindset.
2015 seems to have had the reverse effect of 2003 on the younger players and extended squad members.
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I think if you want the PI Nations to remain competitive, having a five year stand down and then being able to play for a team in Tier 2 is fine.
Not just from the ABs, but Oz, England and France too.
The goal is for more strong teams in international rugby, and the fact is that all those countries have large polynesian (and melanesian) populations (England and France due to professional sport, but it's not that different from the 70s migration to NZ for work).
It actually won't be that many players IMO, but just a handful would be enough to pass on experience and provide a bit of depth.
Whatever we are doing now is certainly not working.
