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  • DuluthD Offline
    DuluthD Offline
    Duluth
    wrote on last edited by
    #290

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/118071990/christchurch-stadium-how-much-ratepayers-will-contribute

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to Duluth on last edited by
    #291

    @Duluth the rugby attendance figures seemed ... optimistic

    six to seven Super Rugby games (15,000 attendees), and four to five provincial rugby games (7000 attendees).

    anyone have the 2019 attendance figures? I can't find them with a quick google (but this was itnerestinghttps://www.austadiums.com/sport/comp_results.php?sid=5)

    that said, this article from 2017 may mean 15k is achievable. I just remember being at AMI for the Mitre 10 cup final in 2010, and there were less than 3,000 people there.

    The Hurricanes were attracting an average of 16,901 people to Westpac Stadium each week, more than 3000 more than in 2015. Blues crowds were up 18.27 per cent, an extra 2000 people each night. The Chiefs and Crusaders had small gains, but gains they had.
    Only the Highlanders saw crowds decline in that period, down from an average of 18,500 in 2015 to 14,751 in 2017 - a drop of 20.26 per cent.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/104613809/new-zealand-super-rugby-crowds-good-but-south-africa-australia-on-life-support

    KiwiMurphK 1 Reply Last reply
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  • KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurph
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #292

    @nzzp The super rugby attendance figures sound about right but the provincial attendance figures sound optimistic - does any team pull 7k average home crowds?

    CyclopsC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CyclopsC Offline
    CyclopsC Offline
    Cyclops
    replied to KiwiMurph on last edited by
    #293

    @KiwiMurph said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    @nzzp The super rugby attendance figures sound about right but the provincial attendance figures sound optimistic - does any team pull 7k average home crowds?

    I very much doubt it.

    15k every year for a football match also seems highly unlikely without a sweetheart deal which defeats the purpose. Unless they know something I don't, the only team that has a chance of pulling that number is the phoenix and they've played maybe 2 games in chch. Planning for one per year is nuts. Maybe one every 4 years would be realistic.

    If they did do a deal to get the phoenix down every year then 15k won't happen, I'd guess an average around 10k based on the Auckland experience and accounting for the lower population base.

    1 rugby league per year match also seems optimistic, but at least there's a track record of Aussie teams taking home games to Christchurch.

    Overall though, I think it just shows how hard it is to make the numbers for a stadium stack up. They're a terrible investment (otherwise the private sector would have long since built one) but do accrue some social benefits, and I suspect that the council have stretched plausibility to make this business case as palatable as possible.

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  • mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4life
    wrote on last edited by
    #294

    It must be incredibly frustrating to put together the case for a rugby stadium in NZ.

    You know, if you get an AB test, you can sell 35,000 easily. But that will be once a year. Every other game you barely need 15,000.

    So, do you build for what you actually need? Or do you put together an optimistic case to pay for what you want.

    NZ Rugby's admirable sentiment of spreading the ABs around really does make things more difficult.

    SnowyS CyclopsC 2 Replies Last reply
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  • SnowyS Offline
    SnowyS Offline
    Snowy
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #295

    @mariner4life said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    You know, if you get an AB test, you can sell 35,000 easily. But that will be once a year. Every other game you barely need 15,000.

    Yep, so you build a 25k stadium would be my guess.

    mariner4lifeM 1 Reply Last reply
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  • mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4life
    replied to Snowy on last edited by
    #296

    @Snowy said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    @mariner4life said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    You know, if you get an AB test, you can sell 35,000 easily. But that will be once a year. Every other game you barely need 15,000.

    Yep, so you build a 25k stadium would be my guess.

    which seems like a half-pregnant approach to me.

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  • CyclopsC Offline
    CyclopsC Offline
    Cyclops
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #297

    @mariner4life said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    It must be incredibly frustrating to put together the case for a rugby stadium in NZ.

    You know, if you get an AB test, you can sell 35,000 easily. But that will be once a year. Every other game you barely need 15,000.

    So, do you build for what you actually need? Or do you put together an optimistic case to pay for what you want.

    NZ Rugby's admirable sentiment of spreading the ABs around really does make things more difficult.

    Crusaders will probably sell out a 25k seater a couple of times a year (and probably more the first few years after opening).

    15k is basically what they have now the crusaders are complaining is too small. An average crowd of 17k probably is 2 games at 13k, two games at 17k and 1 or 2 at or near capacity.

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  • ChrisC Offline
    ChrisC Offline
    Chris
    wrote on last edited by
    #298

    The new stadium concept has the capacity for 5000 extra setting if needed to bring it up to 30,000 capacity for test matches etc.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • StargazerS Offline
    StargazerS Offline
    Stargazer
    wrote on last edited by
    #299

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/119496661/buildings-demolished-on-christchurch-stadium-site

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    Godder
    wrote on last edited by
    #300

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/119944757/crown-approves-christchurch-stadium-funding

    About time, now things can get moving.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to Godder on last edited by nzzp
    #301

    @Godder that's about $20k/seat.

    Needs to be hosting a heap of rugby, cricket and concerts to even pay interest on that, and keep maintained - let alone actually pay down the capital costs of the construction.

    Forsyth Barr cost $200M for 30,000 seats, or about a third of the per seat cost ($6.6k). Of course, this stadium may kill concerts at Forsyth Barr, so hey that's life.

    Stadium expenses just don't add up. I'm not opposed to them, but by god this is an expensive way of tackling it. Still, anything's better than the current venue 🙂

    Will this have conference capacity? Can make a massive differnece to the ongoing operational costs (NH Stadium was the only stadium in Auckland to consistently make a good profit I understand), largely due to its conference facilities

    taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy TellB Offline
    Billy TellB Offline
    Billy Tell
    wrote on last edited by
    #302

    You can’t put a monetary value. Chch needs a stadium. Full stop. It’s not a financial/money-making investment though.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to Billy Tell on last edited by
    #303

    @Billy-Tell said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    You can’t put a monetary value. Chch needs a stadium. Full stop. It’s not a financial/money-making investment though.

    I absolutely agree, but not at any price. $500M looks to me to be twice as much as the next biggest spend in NZ on stadia. Covered stadiums are expensive, but that's a really really expensive build. For context, it's probably cheaper to have an uncovered stadium and give everyone attending a night rugby game a $100 bill as they walk in the door than build it covered. I'm not serious about that, but $20k/seat is eye watering.

    Ya gotta have a car, but you don't necessarily have to have a Ferrari

    Billy TellB KiwiMurphK 2 Replies Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #304

    @nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    Will this have conference capacity? Can make a massive differnece to the ongoing operational costs (NH Stadium was the only stadium in Auckland to consistently make a good profit I understand), largely due to its conference facilities

    yeah the conference and/or multi use is important.

    NEC is in constant use for events large & small, rather than being the white elephant many of the anti-brigade touted through thier loud halers, it has been a success and bought plenty of events here that would not otherwise have come, or made some much better.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #305

    @taniwharugby $18.5M for what, 10,000 seated? It's less than a tenth of the cost per seat of Canterbury's covered stadium. Great investment, likely to return a surplus, and probably economically viable.

    Also a good stadium to watch rugby at!

    taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy TellB Offline
    Billy TellB Offline
    Billy Tell
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #306

    @nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    @Billy-Tell said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    You can’t put a monetary value. Chch needs a stadium. Full stop. It’s not a financial/money-making investment though.

    I absolutely agree, but not at any price. $500M looks to me to be twice as much as the next biggest spend in NZ on stadia. Covered stadiums are expensive, but that's a really really expensive build. For context, it's probably cheaper to have an uncovered stadium and give everyone attending a night rugby game a $100 bill as they walk in the door than build it covered. I'm not serious about that, but $20k/seat is eye watering.

    Ya gotta have a car, but you don't necessarily have to have a Ferrari

    What nz should do is have a covered 25’000 for the major cities including Auckland then an 80’000 national stadium in Auckland. But it’s not really the nz way to have a national stadium that gets all the plum AB games.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to Billy Tell on last edited by
    #307

    @Billy-Tell said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    @nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    @Billy-Tell said in Stadium of Canterbury:

    You can’t put a monetary value. Chch needs a stadium. Full stop. It’s not a financial/money-making investment though.

    I absolutely agree, but not at any price. $500M looks to me to be twice as much as the next biggest spend in NZ on stadia. Covered stadiums are expensive, but that's a really really expensive build. For context, it's probably cheaper to have an uncovered stadium and give everyone attending a night rugby game a $100 bill as they walk in the door than build it covered. I'm not serious about that, but $20k/seat is eye watering.

    Ya gotta have a car, but you don't necessarily have to have a Ferrari

    What nz should do is have a covered 25’000 for the major cities including Auckland then an 80’000 national stadium in Auckland. But it’s not really the nz way to have a national stadium that gets all the plum AB games.

    Do that, and you can cut the cable, run the north island out of power, and stop folk eating proper lamb 🙂 It'll be a secession!

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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #308

    @nzzp yeah costwise isnt comparable, but just makes sense to make it as multi-purpose as possible.

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  • KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurph
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #309

    Could be worse - the SFS in Sydney is being knocked down and rebuilt for a cost of $865M NZD for an uncovered capacity that is the same as what it was beforehand (45k).

    1 Reply Last reply
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