Do we need a World cup?
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
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@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
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@Kirwan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
Well sorta maybe,but with a league style format based on home and away and point differential theres no guarantee that the ABs would win that either. Its much fairer though. It eliminates the vagaries of knock out tournaments and a more worthy winner based on performance over a longer period of time is found. It does away with northern hemisphere teams attempting to send weaker squads south so its a win for the paying public.
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@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Don't get all Cathy Newman on me. You know very well what I'm saying.
We lost a knock out match.
The match in Pool play counted to get us the easier semi final. Which it did.
But there are more paths to the final. One of which SA took.
Clarify for me please: who do you think are the worthy champions? England coz they beat us? Us coz we us and smacked Wales?
I find your bitterness somewhat perplexing.
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@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@Kirwan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
Well sorta maybe,but with a league style format based on home and away and point differential theres no guarantee that the ABs would win that either. Its much fairer though. It eliminates the vagaries of knock out tournaments and a more worthy winner based on performance over a longer period of time is found. It does away with northern hemisphere teams attempting to send weaker squads south so its a win for the paying public.
I don't disagree with a lot of that. Hence why I think having both would be good.
But knockout footy is what the World Cup is about. We've dealt with it for 32 years.
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Don't get all Cathy Newman on me. You know very well what I'm saying.
We lost a knock out match.
The match in Pool play counted to get us the easier semi final. Which it did.
But there are more paths to the final. One of which SA took.
Clarify for me please: who do you think are the worthy champions? England coz they beat us? Us coz we us and smacked Wales?
I find your bitterness somewhat perplexing.
Youre being ridiculous if you are suggesting we had the easier run,winning that pool match gave us the harder draw.
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@Kirwan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
Well sorta maybe,but with a league style format based on home and away and point differential theres no guarantee that the ABs would win that either. Its much fairer though. It eliminates the vagaries of knock out tournaments and a more worthy winner based on performance over a longer period of time is found. It does away with northern hemisphere teams attempting to send weaker squads south so its a win for the paying public.
I don't disagree with a lot of that. Hence why I think having both would be good.
But knockout footy is what the World Cup is about. We've dealt with it for 32 years.
South Africa arent true world champions in my book,they are World cup winners. Theres a difference. In order to assess who the best team is,you would draw conclusions based over a longer period of time than a few weeks. A team could lose 50% of its games over the intervening 4 years between cups then make a run having an inferior draw or a biased ref. Nah thats not a champion.
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I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
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@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@Kirwan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
Well sorta maybe,but with a league style format based on home and away and point differential theres no guarantee that the ABs would win that either. Its much fairer though. It eliminates the vagaries of knock out tournaments and a more worthy winner based on performance over a longer period of time is found. It does away with northern hemisphere teams attempting to send weaker squads south so its a win for the paying public.
I don't disagree with a lot of that. Hence why I think having both would be good.
But knockout footy is what the World Cup is about. We've dealt with it for 32 years.
South Africa arent true world champions in my book,they are World cup winners. Theres a difference. In order to assess who the best team is,you would draw conclusions based over a longer period of time than a few weeks. A team could lose 50% of its games over the intervening 4 years between cups then make a run having an inferior draw or a biased ref. Nah thats not a champion.
First bold: Semantics. But correct.
Second bold: let's look at World Rankings then...
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@Kirwan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
@geebee said in Do we need a World cup?:
@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
As for SA having an easier knockout run this time:
They beat all three winners of the other Pools in consecutive weekends.
I buy the 2007 run was less challenging than some, but not this time.
Our perceptions of current Japan and Wales need to re-read somewhat I think.
Just because they didn't beat us (who lost to the losers of the final) doesn't mean they had it easy.
lol we d give the Japs a hiding. We smacked Wales around with ease. Have you been watching at all? Im all for giving the opposition credit where its due,but this is too far man. SA got lucky,we should of thrown the pool game if we knew how it was going to go.
We didn't play Japan. So we didn't get that option.
We lost a match that counted.
SA didn't.
Can I also suggest you stop being so patronising?
Share your opinion by all means. Even start a hashtag (#notmyworldchamps). But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you're right.
So you are saying a test match and a good test victory against South Africa doesnt count? More reason to get rid of this current format in favour of something that makes all test matches and test caps meaningful again.
Just because we didnt play against Japan,that all of a sudden makes them good somehow? I have a fair idea what the historical results are vs Japan,they are easybeats.
Reeks of sour grapes to suggest getting rid of an entire format because we lost.
Well sorta maybe,but with a league style format based on home and away and point differential theres no guarantee that the ABs would win that either. Its much fairer though. It eliminates the vagaries of knock out tournaments and a more worthy winner based on performance over a longer period of time is found. It does away with northern hemisphere teams attempting to send weaker squads south so its a win for the paying public.
I don't disagree with a lot of that. Hence why I think having both would be good.
But knockout footy is what the World Cup is about. We've dealt with it for 32 years.
South Africa arent true world champions in my book,they are World cup winners. Theres a difference. In order to assess who the best team is,you would draw conclusions based over a longer period of time than a few weeks. A team could lose 50% of its games over the intervening 4 years between cups then make a run having an inferior draw or a biased ref. Nah thats not a champion.
First bold: Semantics. But correct.
Second bold: let's look at World Rankings then...
Rankings are all shite too,need i remind you Ireland and Wales were numero uno for periods of time leading into this cup and they certainly didnt live up to their rate. Its winning test match% and home and away that counts.
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The thing that irritates is that England never have a decent squad for their end of year tests away. The players schedules are such that lots are munted. It would be good if there was some genuine test ranking based on matches that involved the major nations playing each other with a consequence worth competing for within the 4 year period (every 2 years say).
How are the seeding for World Cups determined?
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@kev said in Do we need a World cup?:
The thing that irritates is that England never have a decent squad for their end of year tests away. The players schedules are such that lots are munted. It would be good if there was some genuine test ranking based on matches that involved the major nations playing each other with a consequence worth competing for within the 4 year period (every 2 years say).
How are the seeding for World Cups determined?
World Rankings at the time of the draw, about two years out.
Random draw in bands of 4.
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@booboo said in Do we need a World cup?:
NZ in 2019: played 11 won 8 lost 2 drew 1 (82%)
SA in 2019: played 12 won 10 l lost 1 drew 1 (88%)Arselicking the boks. Add the results of 2016 17 and 18 as well. You know full well you cant get a comprehensive statistical analysis of home and away results in 1 year,its not physically possible to play everyone.
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@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
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@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
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@canefan I could tell that from my lounge in Whangarei, saved thousands
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@canefan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
For sure. It isn't obvious that we were the best team at the World Cup but it is possible to be the best team and not win it.
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@taniwharugby said in Do we need a World cup?:
@canefan I could tell that from my lounge in Whangarei, saved thousands
The way we played we barely managed to be the second best team on the track that night
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@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@canefan said in Do we need a World cup?:
@hydro11 said in Do we need a World cup?:
@gt12 said in Do we need a World cup?:
I find it perplexing that some seem to think we were the best team at the WC but were screwed by the scheduling. We weren’t, and we weren’t.
Pool games only get you to the main dance, where we got dumped. No one could have really predicted the cancellations or Ireland losing to Japan. If SA got an easy road, good on them. They still won 3 on the trot, which is what it takes.
That doesn't mean we weren't the best team though - it just means that being the best team is meaningless.
I was in Yokohama for the SF. We were definitely not the best team the way we got owned
For sure. It isn't obvious that we were the best team at the World Cup but it is possible to be the best team and not win it.
Only as good as your last game. We were not as good as we thought. But yes, we were best in 1995 but gastroenteritis and the boks conspired to beat us
