2019 RWC - Squads
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@Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots
Are you talking about the graphs?
He isn't using birth, he is using raised from age 15/16.
I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.
Edit: He may have used this as a resource, as it shows when those qualifying by residency started - so can work out age at time of qualification.
(according to this Frizzell also played youth soccer for Tonga ... who knew .... )Foreign-Born / Raised Players at RWC 2019 - Americas Rugby News
20 teams will compete at RWC 2019 in Japan. Of them 17 have selected players from other countries. How then did they come to qualify for the country they are representing? The following article is aimed at explaining who they are and how they qualify. It is not an opinion piece but instead sets out...
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@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
@Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots
Are you talking about the graphs?
He isn't using birth, he is using raised to age 15/16.
I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.
The Vunipola's would be the interesting ones, born in Oz and NZ, raised in Wales at least until 11 years (in Mako's case), but considered English raised under this thread?
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@Nepia said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
@Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots
Are you talking about the graphs?
He isn't using birth, he is using raised to age 15/16.
I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.
The Vunipola's would be the interesting ones, born in Oz and NZ, raised in Wales at least until 11 years (in Mako's case), but considered English raised under this thread?
Yes. every measure has to have a cutoff somewhere.
Homegrown, as in from 15 onwards. Can expect the migrated-to country has a had a reasonable role in producing the player, and has likely moved at an age earlier than pro contracts or scholarships.
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@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Thinking about what Leagues provide professional players to the RWC squads after reading this article ( http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/09/11/mlr-representation-at-rwc-2019/ )
MLR employing 10 Uruguyans (as well as their contributions to the USA and Canadian squads).
This got me thinking a bit about how Super Rugby no longer employs many cap-tied players from nations other than that of the home union of the franchise.
By my count Super Rugby is only contributing 10 players to RWC squads outside of (Aus, NZ, Arg, SAF)
2 to USA (Lamborn from Rebels, and de Haas from Cheetahs)
1 to Canada (Ardron from Chiefs)
2 to Tonga (Lousie at Hurricanes, Vunipola at Brumbies)
4 to Samoa (Laupepe at Hurricanes, Niuia at Highlanders, Alaalatoa at Crusaders, Malolua at Reds)
1 to Georgia (Bregvadze at Sunwolves)Amazingly 0 to Fiji.
Not so amazingly, but worth noting: 0 to Namibia.Remember the good old days of Fa'atau, Vunibaqa, Caucaunibuca, So'oalo, Bari, Lima lighting up Super 12.
Note: That Twiggy Forrest and his Rapid Rugby is contributing the exact same number (10) of players to T2 nations this RWC as is all of Super Rugby (excluding Sunwolves and Japan).
Also. Semi-professional or amateur level rugby in NZ, AUS, SAF contributing more (11) players than SR. 4 x Currie Cup players to Namibia, Only 1 NPC player (Kapeli), 4 x various Auckland and Christchurch club players, 2 x Sydney club players.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_squads
(note: this source lists the player's 'highest' current club/franchise level. So some of the Rapid Rugby players, and even some of the SR players to Tonga and Samoa (who are fring SR players), would also have been playing club rugby in Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland etc etc
Edit: Since writing this post, have discovered the T2blog as referenced below.
Interesting graph from there, on pro contracts: http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2019/09/rwc-squad-facts-figures-trends.html
De Haas (Cheetahs) : the Cheetahs do not play in SR.
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@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Looking at the origin of the RWC coaches:
NZ: 7
Australia: 3
Wales: 3
South Africa: 2
Argentina: 2
Ireland: 1
Scotland: 1
France: 1Worth noting that the 3 Welshman are coaching the 3 lowest ranked teams. Rumours that there is a rift with Phil Davies and the Namibia squad according a Tier2 blog I will link later. Renolda Bothma retiring, Davies says dropped, Chysander Botha omitted.
Squidge rugby's video on Canada was very unflattering of Kingsely Jones.
If you ever read a T2 froum, you won't see many positive thoughts on Lynn Howells , the Russian coach, who seems to be perceived as on a T2 merry-go-round. prepared to travel, jobs for the IRB boys, jobs filler.
Of those three only Kingsley Jones is any cop.
Davies and Howells are very lucky men.
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@MiketheSnow said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Davies and Howells are very lucky men.
The Craig Philpotts of Welsh (and global T2) rugby.
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Homegrown, as in from 15 onwards. Can expect the migrated-to country has a had a reasonable role in producing the player, and has likely moved at an age earlier than pro contracts or scholarships.
Lets all agree on the term cis New Zealander, meaning born in NZ...
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@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Players at RWC 2019 by country of birth:
@Machpants you asked ......
So just like in the America's Cup, we are propping up everyone else to a degree
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What I found interesting from this, was both Wales and France don't contribute a single born player to another country at this RWC. Two countries with deep rugby cultures yet apparently no wunderlust?
If Spain had qualified then France would have contributed a few, but the other Francophone rugby countries who have in the past been fringe RWC quality are regressing badly (Morocco, Tunisia, Ivory Coast)
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@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
What I found interesting from this, was both Wales and France don't contribute a single born player to another country at this RWC. Two countries with deep rugby cultures yet apparently no wunderlust?
If Spain had qualified then France would have contributed a few, but the other Francophone rugby countries who have in the past been fringe RWC quality are regressing badly (Morocco, Tunisia, Ivory Coast)
If you are French, you don't leave home because you are already getting paid fuck loads.
Every single even remotely Welsh player who is any good is already in their 23.
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The pillaging of Algeria and Korea needs to stop
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@mariner4life said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
What I found interesting from this, was both Wales and France don't contribute a single born player to another country at this RWC. Two countries with deep rugby cultures yet apparently no wunderlust?
If Spain had qualified then France would have contributed a few, but the other Francophone rugby countries who have in the past been fringe RWC quality are regressing badly (Morocco, Tunisia, Ivory Coast)
If you are French, you don't leave home because you are already getting paid fuck loads.
Every single even remotely Welsh player who is any good is already in their 23.
For Wales, the only expectation I'd have is a player who maybe has some kind of American or Canadian links. Not expecting a rare situation like a Dewi Morris.
Looking forward. Now that there is the MLR, if you are a Welsh Premiership level player rather than Pro14. Try to get a US college scholarship, and then an MLR contract. Especially if a specialist position like fylhalf or hooker. It's players from places where you start playing ages 5, 6, 7 that have a real headstart as flyhalfs etc. Look at how many T2 flyhalfs are actually T1 raised.
As for France, if French-Moroccans and Tunisians were like NZ-Samoans then they'd be qualifying almost every time. Instead they've been overtaken by both Kenya and Uganda now. Not that I'm encouraging it, it's short term stuff, just an interesting observation.
BTW, in 2015. Both France and Wales also didn't contribute a born player to another country back then either.
( http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2015/09/13/foreign-born-players-rwc-2015/ ) -
@Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:
Players at RWC 2019 by country of birth:
For interest: Comparing to 'homegrown'. Using the standard of the tier2blogspot.
I'd put NZ homegrown (or 'NZ produced') players at 82.
The 80 NZ born. Removed 9 players who were NZ born but raised overseas*. Then add 11 players overseas born but were NZ raised**
*players who were NZ born but overseas raised:
- France 1: Vakatawa (Fiji raised)
- Ireland 1: Carberry
- Australia 3: all 3 (Leali’ifano, Lukhan, Uluses were Aussie raised)
- Samoa 2: Seilala Lam & Paul Alo-Emile were Australian raised.
- Japan 1: Michael Leitch (just squeezes in as Japanese homegrown by this standard)
- England 1: Mako Vunipola
**players overseas born but were NZ raised:
- Samoa 6: Tusi Pisi, Jordan and James Lay, Ahsee Tuala, Jack Lam, Rey Lee-Lo
- Australia 1: Kepu
- Tonga 2: Maa'fu Fia and Takulua
- NZ 2: Laulala & Tu'ungafasi
Not included any scholarship players to NZ as NZ homegrown. Regardless of who they now play for. (Siua Maile, Alapati Leiua, Taniela Tupou).
Not included Uew Helu of Japan and following from Tonga; Halonukanuka , Siegfried Fisi’ihoi, Sione Kalamafoni, Afa Pakalani, as all Tongan born and NZ Secondary schooled - but no details on when they moved so hard to differentiate from scholarship kids.
2019 Rugby World Cup squads - Wikipedia
