2019 under 20's
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@Stargazer at this level, it should be all about winning, especially when you are a powerhouse of rugby
Anything other than a top 4 finish should be treated as a failure.
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This ended up being the NZ squad playing Ireland. Nine players on the bench instead of 12. No reserve hooker. Klein was subbed off in the 71st minutes, so I assume one of the props took over the hooking duties until Klein came back on in the 76th minute (when Williams was in the sin bin). Fihaki was the only player not getting game time off the bench.
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@taniwharugby said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer at this level, it should be all about winning, especially when you are a powerhouse of rugby
Anything other than a top 4 finish should be treated as a failure.
It should be all about winning, but within the constraints of domestic structure.
Not go all ever younger, earlier pathwayed, high performance concentration like Stargazer has been advocating.
This is an absolute failure, but the remedy isnt getting the U20 squad playing more youth tests.
The remedy is a competent coach and a better domestic U19s structure. Tbh they can still succeed just with a better coach and no other changes.
I wouldn't describe the Jock Hobbs tournament as an example of NZRU pouring money into youth levels then letting it drift for U20s (debating more stargazers points even though I've quoted TR). The Jock Hobbs tournament is an on-the-cheap 1 week condensed carnival. Timed extremely late in the year, I assume to cater for the schoolboys finishing their school year.
An example of pouring money in to a Jock Hobbs tournament would be a 10 week long weekly tournament coinciding with NPC (so after club season has finished). For 19 year olds not still hanging around their schools like lingering farts.
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@Rapido Just a few clarifications. I was only pointing out that several other countries are already organising tests and international tours for their national schools teams. I'm not advocating that NZ should do the same; I just think it would be better if the NZU20s played more quality opponents before the JWC (now they only play one, Australia). That would be possible by organising a tournament that includes better opponents than Fiji, Japan, Samoa or Tonga, or by competing at a tournament as organised in South Africa this year (participants: SA, Argentina, Georgia and a forgettable Namibia XV).
Also, the U19 tournament is in the first half of September, not late in the year and not meant for schoolboys, who are still eligible to play in secondary school competitions (incl the National Top 4). There are also seeding games; in the Hurricanes catchment they are being played on 3 weekends in August; these are the same weekends that Hurricanes secondary school qualifiers, semi-finals and finals are being played. So the U19s teams play at least 6 games (in the Hurricanes catchment, but I assume it's the same for other regions).
The U19 tournament is basically used to select players for the U20 camps for the following NZ U20 campaign. Usually, the first NZU20 camp is organised in late November/early December. Only a few boys who have played for NZ Schools make the NZU20 camps for the next JWC. Most will have to wait until they've played in the following year's U19 tournament (when they've left school).
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Just finished watching the final. Well done to both sides on a great game to watch. Aussies effort in the final couple of minutes was pretty good and loose one hand ball carry cost them.
Aussies had some fleet footed forwards that moved like backs. The French forwards were more traditional and were excellent in cleaning out and work at the ruck. In saying that the best clean out of the game was from the Aussie number 22 late in the 2nd half.
Overall some good skills from both sides and played at the level of intensity expected for a final.
Did NZ send a team to this tournament?
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@ACT-Crusader Yes, but we didn't send coaches or selectors.
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World Rugby U20s "not the place" for rule experimentation: Gilmore
Junior Wallabies coach Jason Gilmore says the World Rugby U20s Championship should not be the venue for rule experimentation after “overboard” refereeing in this year’s tournament. The World Rugby U20s Championship is often used to trial new rules and in recent years has been the testing ground for harsher high tackle laws and more stringent send-offs. There are other law amendments that have been less controversial, with teams allowed to name squads of up to 28 to ease player management throughout the tournament, but it is the high tackle decisions that have caused the most discussion around the tournament. Gilmore said there were better places to put law changes to the test, pointing to even the second-tier World Rugby U20s Trophy competition as a better option. “I don't think it's the place for it,” he said. “All these boys come out from around the world, from Super Rugby or top 14 or European championship and none of those competitions are refereed in the same way so I probably question why the World U20s division one World Cup is the place we're going to be trialling these laws. “Certainly there's other competitions in the world they could be done at a lower level just to see how it goes but I'm all for protecting the boys, that's got to be first and foremost but I just thought it affected their performances of teams at the world cup, which we don't want.”Australia had three red cards during the tournament and one citing, while they were also the beneficiary of an early carding in a pool match against Ireland. Red carded players were referred straight to the judiciary and many of them were let off without a suspension or had suspensions overturned despite the cardings. Australia alone had a red card suspension and a high tackle citing overruled in the lead-up to the World Rugby U20s championship final. Gilmore said that discrepancy alone showed that those red card decisions were often premature.“I'm all for protecting the boys with the high tackle law, definitely, but it's definitely refereed harshly over there,”he said. “If you have a look at the number of red cards across the tournament, not just with our football team, compared to the suspensions being given out you're really questioning whether the red cards were the maximum penalty in the first place. “Being a World Cup, you don't want to see teams and games being affected by teams being down to 14 men and 13 men at times. -
My only viewing was brief highlights in news articles but I wasn't at all surprised at the failure of this team. As others have said, poorly selected and coached. That started with the naming of the captain, and particularly VCs. The captain needed to be a player who isn't going be to be subbed, while McLeod wouldn't be in my best XV. When I saw the squad named Flanders or Tupaea were the logical choices.
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The selection and the coaching were poor, that's for sure, but I don't remember having seen a NZ U20 side with so few talents in its ranks ! How many of them will get a SR contract in the next two years ? Not many I think. The locks are a worry as their lack of size was a handicap for the whole pack. The backrow was well below par too. The midfield was poor, both in defense and in attack.
So who did well ? Though he struggled in the set scrums, Tamaiti Williams is one to watch for the future. He was very strong with ball in hand (and he is only 18). He's got time to improve his scrummaging and learn a few tricks. Funaki and Lalomilo had their moments. Kereru-Symes has good hands but does not look big enough for the upper level. Other than these, no other names spring to my mind. -
Philpott and co promoted some players from the NZSS team while ignoring some very good players who excelled at the 2018 U19 tournament, and have been playing well in club rugby.
The happiest person will be Scott Robertson who now loses the mantle of worst NZ U20 coach.
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Japan have won the World Rugby U20 Trophy, beating Portugal 35 - 34 in the final.
That means that Japan will take Scotland's place in the WR U20 Championship in 2020.
Interestingly, Japan was relegated to the WR U20 Trophy, after finishing last in the 2018 WR U20 Championship. -
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
Japan have won the World Rugby U20 Trophy, beating Portugal 35 - 34 in the final.
That means that Japan will take Scotland's place in the WR U20 Championship in 2020.
Interestingly, Japan was relegated to the WR U20 Trophy, after finishing last in the 2018 WR U20 Championship.I saw a bit of Portugal on Youtube livestreams during breakfast times over the last week, they were really impressive. Shame they missed out on promotion.
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I see that for next year's U20 championship. NZ are drawn in the same group as 2 x defending champions France. The rightful reward for coming 7th is a crap seeding.
3 groups of 4. So, 1 in 3 chance that second pool progresses to top 4. But more unlikely if drawn in a tough pool.
A pool of:
- France
- Wales
- New Zealand
- Japan
Order of matches for NZ is:
NZ v Wales
NZ v France
NZ v JapanNo easing into it with a soft one v Japan first up ....
Although, with youth rugby, there is no guarantee that one team is strong from year to year.
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@Bovidae said in 2019 under 20's:
@Rapido WR needs to rethink the format and have 4 groups (of 3 or 4 teams). This year NZ was in the same pool as SA while Pool C had England, Aust and Ireland. Aussie made the final out of that pool of death.
The format doesn't bother me. I don't care if the second best team in one pool who progresses to the top 4 is slightly worse that the second team in another pool, who didn't. We are talking about teams who couldn't win their pool.
Never groups of 3. That brings in the short turnarounds ....
However, I am for changing the format. A 16 team JWC and an 8 JWT. As that is 24 teams getting quality youth rugby each year. As a means to the end of increasing the RWC from 20 teams so we can get away from pools of 5 and short turnarounds.
I'd like WR to focus on restructuing (increasing the size) the annual youth tournaments. But whether that is as I suggest above, or as a 12 team JWC and a 12 JWT - I don't really mind.
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@Rapido I wonder where they get that info from? Nothing has been announced by World Rugby about the 2020 WR U20 Championship, other than a confirmation of its location (Italy). The website of the Italian Rugby Federation also doesn't mention anything. Most of the info on that Wikipedia page has been created on 23 June 2019, that's one day after the 2019 final. Seems a bit strange.
Edit: the Schedule of the 2019 tournament was only announced in March 2019.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@Rapido I wonder where they get that info from? Nothing has been announced by World Rugby about the 2020 WR U20 Championship, other than a confirmation of its location (Italy). The website of the Italian Rugby Federation also doesn't mention anything. Most of the info on that Wikipedia page has been created on 23 June 2019, that's one day after the 2019 final. Seems a bit strange.
Edit: the Schedule of the 2019 tournament was only announced in March 2019.
Right, probably the ordering of the schedule is just the order someone has entered it on the page. My mistake.
The pools, I assume the wiki anorak has taken the 1 to 12 seedings and put in groups as per how they have been grouped in previous editions. So, probably accurate.
2020 World Rugby Under 20 Championship - Wikipedia