Blues 2019
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@MN5 said in Blues 2019:
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2019:
@nzzp Sir Graham would probably say give Gilbert a call.
I heard Henry on the phone on ZB. His recall seems a bit poor these days.
I agree, I think the commitment level is probably an issue also. From all reports he enjoys the Auckland role given minimal travel commitments and condensed schedule. In similar situations he has been unable to rub the magic pixie dust on Argentina or the Blues under Kirwan.
At this point you are looking for the next Ted, not Ted.
It is also major incitement on MacDonald (and to a certain extent Umaga - a former AB captain under Ted). When you hire one of these coaches from the Crusader coaching tree the very intangibles @nzzp is bemoaning the Blues lacking are supposed to come as standard with the package. Yet time and time again (Gibson, Hammett, Mauger, Blackadder even Deans himself) outside of the Crusaders environment they are flops.
The pragmatic decision needs to made to move on from appointing ex-ABs on limited resumes and go another route as of next year.
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@Duluth said in Blues 2019:
@rotated said in Blues 2019:
The pragmatic decision needs to made to move on from appointing ex-ABs on limited resumes and go another route as of next year.
Who?
Jason Holland's body of work makes him an outstanding and obvious candidate. And to their credit I would fully expect the Blues to interview him as part of the next coaching search (not in his own right, purely as a character reference for Carlos).
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@rotated very harsh on Dean's there. And mauger could still go good.
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@rotated Who would you like to try now from David Nucifora,Pat Lam.John Kirwan,Tana Umunga,Leon McDonald
You have had one Assistant coach for (1 year might I add) from the Crusaders the rest from everywhere.
Maybe something is not heathly within the franchise that's where you should be looking to fix.You have had coaches,decent players but something is holding it back within.
Ex players have Worked not only at the Crusaders, but the Highlanders,Chiefs,Hurricanes have done ok with ex players as a coach. -
@muddyriver said in Blues 2019:
@rotated very harsh on Dean's there. And mauger could still go good.
Deans is one I'd argue did very well with the cattle he had. Mostly. Some personality issues, but he got the best out of that playing group I reckon.
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@muddyriver said in Blues 2019:
@rotated very harsh on Dean's there. And mauger could still go good.
The assessment was on ability to export the Crusaders system and ethos rather than his results. While the Aussies had some success under him at times I would suggest the Australian rugby public were disappointed that he was unable to bring the Crusaders intangibles with him.
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@rotated said in Blues 2019:
@muddyriver said in Blues 2019:
@rotated very harsh on Dean's there. And mauger could still go good.
The assessment was on ability to export the Crusaders system and ethos rather than his results. While the Aussies had some success under him at times I would suggest the Australian rugby public were disappointed that he was unable to bring the Crusaders intangibles with him.
Arguably, it was Wayne Smith who instilled those values after a horror first season. It's been maintenance and development ever since... he was the first and greatest
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@Chris said in Blues 2019:
@rotated Who would you like to try now from David Nucifora,Pat Lam.John Kirwan,Tana Umunga,Leon McDonald
You have had one Assistant coach for (1 year might I add) from the Crusaders the rest from everywhere.None of the above please.
It's not an issue with the Crusaders, it's about looking at all these appointees purely as coaches. After you back out the playing career of the MacDonald resume he is a bloke with three years head coaching experience at ITM Cup level and a cup of coffee as a Crusaders assistant in addition to assistant roles at lower levels.
This seems to wholly inadequate when you put his resume up against two of the other four NZ franchise coaches whose professional coaching careers extend beyond the start of MacDonald's international playing career. All the successful coaches this decade in NZ (Boyd, Rennie, Joseph was somewhat similar but had a larger body of work). MacDonald is much closer to Lam, and the Aussie assistants Larkham and Grey in terms of ability and experience.
If his AB tenure does count in his appointment, then let it, but should we be surprised then that a Leon MacDonald coached side is bottling big moments in big games?
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@rotated No we shouldn't I think McDonald has not had a hard enough apprenticeship to take on a very tough coaching Job.I was really surprised he took over the HC job so quickly.He is and was not ready for it.
In my opinion until the internal cultural problems are sorted the Blues will continue to struggle and that starts at the top of the organisation way above the coaches head. -
So, the Blues already have another coach ready for the scrap heap?
Probably time to blame the players for making stupid errors that professional rugby players shouldn’t be making or the team “leaders” for utterly failing to lead the team or blame the shitty culture of the organisation that has resulted in decades of mediocrity.
The coach isn’t the problem.
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@pukunui said in Blues 2019:
So, the Blues already have another coach ready for the scrap heap?
I don't really see them as different coaches; Lam, Umaga and MacDonald are similar coaches all appointed under the same faulty logic. This is largely why I was against the MacDonald appointment as there was a natural opportunity at the end of the RWC cycle to appoint a better candidate, however now they are continuing attempting to find a boy wonder.
As for the culture rot at the Blues, if you believe that starts with the board down then they changed that a year ago and those things surely take time. But I'm more of the school that a strong coaching team can turn things around very quickly which we saw at the Chiefs.
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@pukunui said in Blues 2019:
So, the Blues already have another coach ready for the scrap heap?
I only see one poster suggesting that.
The squad quality has been talked about quite a lot. Including prior to this season. Unfortunately poor selections linger for years as we wait for contracts to expire.
The lack of trust in 2nd tier players has been talked about constantly too.. which is fine if the players not trusted by the current coaches do not get extensions.As for Leon the jury is out. Like many other Blues fans I thought he pretty much had a free pass this year.
I don't think he has made the most of that leeway.For instance, my prediction at the start of the year was that the Blues would be shite again (too many holes in the squad) and the second half of the season would be about experimentation looking forward to 2020.
I was right about the first part (insert shitty joke here) but why not the second part?
It was a missed opportunity to not look at Tale'a in the midfield earlier. Why did we wait until the last game to look at Robinson as a lock? Is Dalton as good at 8 as he is at 6? Can Sotutu be trusted with a start? Renata was worth a look from the bench rather than playing our props for 80mins. Is Pierce ready for this level?
It was missed opportunity to test a handful of things
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What are the rules about bringing in players for long term injuries?
Matich was included when two opensides were injured at the start of the year.
Li was added when Lindenmuth was out
Why didn't we bring in a back for Perofeta? It was known 1/3 of the way through the season he wasn't going to be fit. Trainor was also out.
Tupou was unavailable too. Why no extra loosie?
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@Machpants said in Blues 2019:
@pukunui yeah it's hard to know where to point the blame, but changes in personnel on the field and coaching box haven't made a difference for years.
Are you pukunui on ENWorld?
Nah not me. This is pretty much the only forum im on these days.
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The Blues have finished another season at the bottom of the New Zealand Super Rugby conference and the post-mortem is already underway. And it seems everyone - including chief executive Michael Redman - is under the microscope. A new board and a new coaching group were ultimately unable to prevent the franchise's campaign coming to another disappointing conclusion. Blowing a 19-point lead against the Hurricanes wasn't how the Blues hoped to end their season. The match wasn't a reflection of the season for chairman Don Mackinnon, but he pulls no punches in his summary of where the Blues are positioned. "Firstly, can I say it's not good enough," Mackinnon told Newshub. "Finishing fifth out of five isn't where we're aiming to be. "We need leaders, no doubt about that. I'm unashamedly going to encourage the organisation to look for talent outside of the region." -
@KiwiMurph good article, echoes my thoughts. I like the board is putting themselves under review as well. For a new board it's living the culture you want.
I'm eternally hopeful, despite recent losses
