NZ v Bangladesh Test #1
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To be fair we are playing teams that are used to facing spinners that
A. Are better then what we can offer
B. On pitches far more suited to spin.Net session with a local club side back home probably is a bigger challenge for these guys then facing our spin bowling stocks.
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So that should be a list of all spinners to play 5 tests and take at least 10 wickets. It shows what a genuine test class spinner can achieve and that we've never had one (Bracewell being the closest we've come).
Alternate version of this list with the 10 wicket qualifier replaced with bowled at least 75 overs.
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Which betters the historical average of NZ spin bowlers at home, which is 42.55
We donβt perform much better away tho.
41.65 in England
49.73 in India
47.57 in Australia
52.60 in the West Indies
40.85 in South Africa
39.61 in Pakistan
39.21 in the UAEOur best performing countries are
27.70 in Zimbabwe
25.94 in Bangladesh
33.91 in Sri LankaFair to say we are just generally shit with spin bowling but punch above our weight with pace
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@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Are you saying on each of those nine occasions we gifted the wicket to the opposition?
Perera got Nicholls with a good one in the SL first test with the score around 500. The remainder from the SL series were slogs to cow corner and that one where Williamson had a brain explosion and spooned it to short fine leg.
Obviously being somewhat facetious, but also I wouldn't say the quality of spin from either touring side has been great.
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Yep! Could spend hours playing with it.
Also had messed up the 5 tests/75 overs list. Here is the correct version.
Basically anyone who bowled a decent number of overs in NZ has done better than ever NZ spinner ever, except Monty Panesar, who was a bit pants.
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@Chris-B said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Cyclops Not many overseas players on that list who weren't at least minor greats of the game.
Where are the people like Graeme Swann, Nathan Lyon, Ravi Ashwin etc? They simply don't play enough matches here.
Yeah, there a lot of guys who only ever played one series in NZ and its hard to design qualifiers that include them without letting in part timers who bowled a couple of overs a game (Sachin Tendulkar, looking at you).
One example is Anil Kumble who only played 3 tests here and averaged over 40.
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@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Looking at our most successful spin bowler of the last 20 years, Daniel Vettori.
362 wickets @ 34.36Home he took 159 wickets @ 37.11
Away he took 203 wickets @ 32.16I'll always have a lot of love for Dan the man as much for his gutsy batting and captaincy as for his bowling. Interesting reading, so the consensus is Bracewell was better than he was ? @Cyclops are you saying we've never had a test class spinner?
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@MN5 said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Looking at our most successful spin bowler of the last 20 years, Daniel Vettori.
362 wickets @ 34.36Home he took 159 wickets @ 37.11
Away he took 203 wickets @ 32.16I'll always have a lot of love for Dan the man as much for his gutsy batting and captaincy as for his bowling. Interesting reading, so the consensus is Bracewell was better than he was ? @Cyclops are you saying we've never had a test class spinner?
Might have been a bit harsh on that one. There's Vettori and Bracewell who would be in the lower half of the test class spinners group.
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@Cyclops said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@MN5 said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Looking at our most successful spin bowler of the last 20 years, Daniel Vettori.
362 wickets @ 34.36Home he took 159 wickets @ 37.11
Away he took 203 wickets @ 32.16I'll always have a lot of love for Dan the man as much for his gutsy batting and captaincy as for his bowling. Interesting reading, so the consensus is Bracewell was better than he was ? @Cyclops are you saying we've never had a test class spinner?
Might have been a bit harsh on that one. There's Vettori and Bracewell who would be in the lower half of the test class spinners group.
'test' class or 'world' class ?
off the top of my head only Warne and Murali of recent spinners fit into the latter category.
Ya have to go back many years to get anyone approaching their level.
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'test'. My initial comment was based on the stats guru list I posted, which is not good reading for NZ cricket, but as @Chris-B pointed out, most of the international guys on that list would be in or close to the 'great' tier.
A test quality spinner should be able to tie down an end in unfriendly conditions, be a genuine wicket taking threat in friendly ones (and still keep it tight) and be able to mop up the tail fairly regularly.
Our bowlers generally either offer wicket taking threat or keep it tight but not both.
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@Cyclops said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
'test'. My initial comment was based on the stats guru list I posted, which is not good reading for NZ cricket, but as @Chris-B pointed out, most of the international guys on that list would be in or close to the 'great' tier.
A test quality spinner should be able to tie down an end in unfriendly conditions, be a genuine wicket taking threat in friendly ones (and still keep it tight) and be able to mop up the tail fairly regularly.
Our bowlers generally either offer wicket taking threat or keep it tight but not both.
Fair call. Not for a second suggesting DV was world class but he was definitely test class especially for NZ. Not for nothing is he second on the all time list and, two legends I mentioned aside, I think he would have had a shot at making most other test teams of his era. ( Actually not India, Kumble and Harvhajan were better, or England, Swann......)
Ok maybe half of test teams.....
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@Chris-B said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@MN5 Dan was world class at his peak. He played for the World XI vs Oz.
I hoped he'd play forever, he carried the team for awhile there all on his own including the embarrassing time before Taylor came in that he and BMac had about 10 hundreds between them and the top six had none.
But I think 'World class' is probably pushing it.