The Interweb
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="465673" data-time="1418780286">
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<p>You're right about the distance apparently. If you use their online tool it says I am VDSL capable, but the engineers say no dice. Any idea why it would have gotten worse as the year goes on though? I was getting 10Mbps which was poor but usable. And the upload speed is a complete nightmare when trying to use Google docs or iCloud etc. Honestly, the quickest way to upload anything or send a bulky email is to turn the wifi off on my phone and use 3G to do the job.</p>
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<p>It annoys me that while my contract is with Spark they happily blame Chorus any time you call them on the crap quality. And to think they're going to increase the price by $5 pm next year. Mind you, first world problems, eh?</p>
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<p>The tool just shows that your cabinet is VDSL capable. VDSL degrades heaps over distance and quality of the copper both at your house and in the street will also have a big effect. If you are in a fibre area then no one is going to re-run a degrading copper network only to then lay down fibre as you come into the rollout.</p>
<p>Very first thing to look at is your in home wiring, If you have some old piggyback shit dick smith home job extensions to every room type set up then cut the lot and run some Cat5 (minimum) from the junction to one jackpoint. If you already have a cleanish wiring setup then the next step is to try a new splitter/ line filter. The cheap ones can really degrade your signal. Check out this thread on Geekzone for better info as well. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=27834'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=27834</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="465677" data-time="1418781648">
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<p>My wife thought I was nuts, but that was second or third on my list for when we went looking for a house. I actively moved into a fibre area because I work from home, and a good connect is very important to me.</p>
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<p>Ditto. I work from home at least twice a week and I simply wouldn't countenance moving to an area that wasn't already riddled with fibre for the new NBN.</p> -
<p>I work from home over this shitty connection - RDP to my work PC even!</p>
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<p>I pay $49 a month and get ADSL2+ with 100Gb download and land line (Mrs TA doesn't trust VOIP enough to let go of it). My ISP also runs mobile so I get 3G for $18 a month with $600 of calls and 1Gb data. Throw in the $1.10 fee they charge me for using credit card and its under $70 a month.</p> -
<p>Is NZ more advanced than Australia regards the national network? I was speaking to an Australian Telstra manager/mate (in Martin Place ironically) just a few weeks ago, and I am not allowed to say their projects are status SNAFU, without the the N for Normal. I repeat, not allowed to say it.</p>
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<p>400 gig (split into off peak and peak - don't know why) for $70 a month. No phone however, not that it matters given I use Lync anyway.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="465730" data-time="1418812601">
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<p>Is NZ more advanced than Australia regards the national network? I was speaking to an Australian Telstra manager/mate (in Martin Place ironically) just a few weeks ago, and I am not allowed to say their projects are status SNAFU, without the the N for Normal. I repeat, not allowed to say it.</p>
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<p>I think in metropolitan terms at least, yes for connectivity speeds.</p>
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<p>I know our stores in NZ have much better data connections than the stores in Oz, but then we inherited a lot of them. Of course, I think our buying teams here are utter fuckwits too, and couldn't negotiate their way out of bed in the morning.</p> -
<p><sup>this thread prompted me to check Chorus' rollout map and hallelujah I am now programmed for UFB :good1: </sup></p>
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<p><sup>Sometime between July 2017 & June 2018 :(</sup></p>
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<p><sup>Meanwhile as I have whinged before properties 50 metres away in all bar one direction are already connected. </sup></p> -
<p>I actually sent a complaint to Spark about the crap speeds and got this response:</p>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;">I have checked your line and your connection is getting 7568/824 as the connect rates. This is just the speed between modem and exchange equipment.</span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;">Chorus has given a speed as anything above 1 MB as download for broadband and upload will be always less than 1 MB. </span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;">In your case you have mentioned that you are getting 5.75 Down and 0.64 Up, this will be the right speeds you can get with your connect rates and it will not be any faster.</span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;">I have checked the attenuation on your line and it is coming as 15.8 up/ 47.5 down this is suggesting that the you are about 4 to 5 km from the exchange and once we have distance like this it will not get ADSL 2 speeds.</span></blockquote>
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<p>Setting aside that they didn't answer any of the questions I asked , which were basically "what are you going to do about it" and "how can you charge so much for such a poor service" it raises some interesting points.</p>
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<p>First, Chorus apparently considers 1MB to be the standard for broadband download speed. I guess they actually mean 1Mb which is an eighth as much, otherwise my 5.75Mbps would fall short wouldn't it?</p>
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<p>Second, they openly state that upload will always be less than 1MB (again I suspect they've got their bits and bytes mixed up). I'm not sure any telecom company can claim to be supportive of the whole cloud computing movement while restricting their customers to those speeds. I can't find anything in their literature to suggest they are being open about their product being unsuitable for that kind of use.</p>
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<p>Third, they state that at the distance I am from the exchange I will not get ADSL2 speeds. In which case I'm not sure why they sold me the package as an ADSL2 package. Once again I can't find any differentiator that allows people to choose a cheap basic ADSL package instead of an ADSL2 one if it turns out they can't get the better standard.</p> -
<p>That's shite speeds JC, must be frustrating.</p>
<p>Now I don't really want to defend Spark but there are a few things you need to take into consideration.</p>
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<p>Firstly the package you will have signed up to will have stated that it was 'Best Efforts' and that the experience will differ for different customers depending on a lot of factors. So you can't really complain that they aren't providing what you agreed to. You will get the same result from whatever ISP you are with, but first thing you should do is make sure you change plan and stop handing them money for nothing.</p>
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<p>Your problem is your distance to a node. Normally this is because you may be on the outskirts of a town or the town has expanded but not quite enough to warrant another cabinet or exchange. Sometimes it's just bad luck. A cabinet has a certain radius (around 2k) where ADSL2+ will work. If you are even closer then you can go VDSL. The price for a wholesale connection is set by the Commerce Commission and doesn't take into account speed of connection. (well it does but it is written as old dial up speeds which you certainly wouldn't want to enforce). Anything above this is 'free' improvements invested in and rolled out by Chorus. They get no extra money for improving their service, which is really stupid.</p>
<p>So while Chorus have put in Fibre to cabinets improving speeds massively to around 80% of connections, there are some where it simply doesn't make any sense to, especially in areas that the govt has put on the fibre to the home plan. For example, I get good VDSL but aren't on the Fibre plans yet so that will have to make do. At some time soon you will overtake me, but until then are stuck on crap.</p>
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<p>It would be great if b/band at high speed was considered a right but it is a utility and no different to something like water. If you buy a property beyond the council's water mains then you have to sort yourself out.</p>
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<p>I agree with you that it is shit that you have to pay the same amount for a crap connection as someone on ADSL2+ but it is the govt (through the Commerce Commission) that forces that situation, not the infrastructure company or the ISP.</p> -
<p><img src="http://www.speedtest.net/result/3995249502.png" alt="3995249502.png"></p>
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<p>Lost about 25Mb from last week, and upload has gone up. But at least it's working (I didn't want to miss out on the pretty picture phase of the thread).</p>
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<p>Great info on this topic, as usual. Thanks Crucial, very interesting reading.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="465849" data-time="1418933769">
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<p><img src="http://www.speedtest.net/result/3995249502.png" alt="3995249502.png"></p>
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<p>Lost about 25Mb from last week, and upload has gone up. But at least it's working (I didn't want to miss out on the pretty picture phase of the thread).</p>
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<p>Great info on this topic, as usual. Thanks Crucial, very interesting reading.</p>
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<p>I would have expected to see higher than that Kirwan. I gather Orcon fixed you up after your Geekzone post? Did you see this post in the same forum ( <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82&topicid=159721'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82&topicid=159721</a> ) . Seems to be issues around the time of your install. </p> -
<p>Yeah, I saw that. It wasn't related to my issues. I'm usually up around 88-93Mb-ish. This is my last day of work before going on holiday, so if it's still like that when I get back I'll go down that support rabbit hole again.</p>
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<p>Their support is 1 million times better than Vodafone's though. Had to call them twice about the last house, and was on hold for 90mins and 80mins. I even complained on Faceboook (had nothing else to do...)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="465860" data-time="1418936595">
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<p>Oh, and I did get help from geekzone, but he didn't (as far as I know) pull any strings. He confirmed that the helpdesk had followed all the right diagnostic/resolution steps.</p>
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<p>Geekzone is a fairly well respected forum in the industry though. Very knowledgeable folk and well moderated. You will probably have noticed that many of the techies that post there are happy to be open (with employer consent) about where they work and will often try and directly help.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800</a></p>
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<p>Nick, this is probably a good thread for you to read Starts with a clear explanation from Chorus on speeds attained etc. As far as I know, the shear capacity from the Cabinets minimises the effect you are talking about. Fibre doesn't have the same distance issues as copper. Light continues at the speed of light etc. Aggregation issues with copper are more to do with the amount a cabinet can process from light to electric. If the network is all copper then the problems are simply signal strength.</p>
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<p>There will be aggregation slowdowns at fibre cabs I guess but with no conversion necessary you are simply talking about how much light a mirror can handle.</p> -
<p>and a good explanation of how GPON works (Passive Optical Network). Use the tabs on the page for the full story</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www3.alcatel-lucent.com/technology/gpon/#tabAnchor3'>http://www3.alcatel-lucent.com/technology/gpon/#tabAnchor3</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="465865" data-time="1418940304">
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<p>Geekzone is a fairly well respected forum in the industry though. Very knowledgeable folk and well moderated. You will probably have noticed that many of the techies that post there are happy to be open (with employer consent) about where they work and will often try and directly help.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800</a></p>
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<p>Nick, this is probably a good thread for you to read Starts with a clear explanation from Chorus on speeds attained etc. As far as I know, the shear capacity from the Cabinets minimises the effect you are talking about. Fibre doesn't have the same distance issues as copper. Light continues at the speed of light etc. Aggregation issues with copper are more to do with the amount a cabinet can process from light to electric. If the network is all copper then the problems are simply signal strength.</p>
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<p>There will be aggregation slowdowns at fibre cabs I guess but with no conversion necessary you are simply talking about how much light a mirror can handle.</p>
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<p>Yep, it's an incredibly useful resource. The guy that replied to me was an Orcon employee, which is great as the helpdesk is offshore, and as nice as they are having local help has benefits.</p>
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<p>Fixed an issue getting onto my VPN for work from past threads on there, an issue I'd never have solved on my own.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="465865" data-time="1418940304">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800'>http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=135&topicid=136800</a></p>
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<p>Nick, this is probably a good thread for you to read Starts with a clear explanation from Chorus on speeds attained etc. As far as I know, the shear capacity from the Cabinets minimises the effect you are talking about. Fibre doesn't have the same distance issues as copper. Light continues at the speed of light etc. Aggregation issues with copper are more to do with the amount a cabinet can process from light to electric. If the network is all copper then the problems are simply signal strength.</p>
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<p>There will be aggregation slowdowns at fibre cabs I guess but with no conversion necessary you are simply talking about how much light a mirror can handle.</p>
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<p>Figures.</p>
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<p>Here with the new estates that are getting hooked up on fibre, they actually have bans on roof-mounted TV aerials because everything is delivered through glass - phone, TV, fax, internet of course.</p>
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<p>Even though we're talking light, there are still hardware junctions along the way that need to process it, and they still have to route and manage requests through even if it is as really high speeds. Its not a single strand of glass connecting me all the way to my ISP after all.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="465883" data-time="1418950723"><p>Figures.<br><br>
Here with the new estates that are getting hooked up on fibre, they actually have bans on roof-mounted TV aerials because everything is delivered through glass - phone, TV, fax, internet of course.<br><br>
Even though we're talking light, there are still hardware junctions along the way that need to process it, and they still have to route and manage requests through even if it is as really high speeds. Its not a single strand of glass connecting me all the way to my ISP after all.</p></blockquote>
That geekzone link explains the expected losses from the theoretical speed. <br>
I find it really funny though that you are concerned about possible losses of a magnitude that pales into insignificance when compared to your current service -
<p>How about this then. Broadband, apparently:</p>
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<p><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4002406137"><img src="http://www.speedtest.net/result/4002406137.png" alt="4002406137.png"></a></p>