Black Caps v India
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@shark said in Black Caps v India:
If we had a fully fit unit (I mean, never gonna happen, but this is theoretical), I'd stick with my Anderson / Neesham 6/7 power hitting axis as suggested above, after Latham, Guppy, Kane, Rosco and Nicholls.
This leaves four spots for bowlers with Neesham / Anderson / Kane to share some overs. Boult is a given and I'd take a fully fit Milne over Ferguson in that express change bowler role. My other opening bowler would be Henry (record speaks for itself, he just needs games).
There is so much mixed opinion on playing two genuine spinners in England but I'd just play Sodhi as our attacking spinner.
So my 'ideal world' line-up would be Latham, Guptill, Kane, Rosco, Nicholls, Anderson, Neesham, Milne, Henry, Sodhi, Boult.
7 bowling options, batting to 7 followed by two bowlers who bat a bit (remember them both banging away against SL approx three years ago?)
Other squaddies would be Southee, Santner, Bracewell/de Grandhomme (I can't separate them!) and Seifert.
I love the look of that team except for maybe Santner in there which I agree is ironic considering some of my bagging of him.
Neesh/Anderson would be amazing if they both had blinders.
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The only problem with Latham opening is he is our best player against spin, and has looked pretty comfortable against India in the middle overs despite not kicking on with his starts. If that is going to be a factor in England then it may be worth leaving him in the middle order.
Still, I think it's pretty clear (well it has been for ever really) that Munro is not much chop against a good quality bowling lineup. If we are serious about going all the way then he's not the answer, we at least need someone that can build an innings.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:
The only problem with Latham opening is he is our best player against spin, and has looked pretty comfortable against India in the middle overs despite not kicking on with his starts. If that is going to be a factor in England then it may be worth leaving him in the middle order.
That's a key point.
Also, it's a small sample, but he hasn't been a roaring success as a keeper opening the batting...
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I've bagged out the Indians in the past. Like, a lot. Their team was massively over-rated by their dominance at home, but then they sucked on the road.
Those days are well gone. That attack they have assembled is fucking classy. This summer, in Aus and in NZ, they have won games by regularly taking wickets throughout innings. They are able to build pressure with consistent plans; they have seamers with genuine pace; and of course the ubiquitous classy Indian spinners.
They are then backed up by a strong, if not dominant, batting lineup (led by a genuine star in Kohli) who are benefiting from the attack not putting them under too much pressure. Fuckers have learned to field as well.
It's been a nice little romp through Australasia for them this summer, and a great warm up for later in the year.
Watching yesterday it was amazing to watch two of our best ever batsmen get frustrated as the Indian's just gave them nothing.
Amazing to see an Indian team come here, take 3 times as many wickets as us, and then run down our meagre totals without anyone racking up a big score.
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Re Henry, if his strength is taking the new ball and his second and third spells are suspect, then why not open the bowling with him and as long as he's going ok, give him a 6-7 over opening spell? Then as part of my side he may ot need to bowl the rest of his allocated overs given we'd have 7 options. Hell, you only need three frontliners to bowl their full complement and the other four share 20 overs!
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@mariner4life yep, and their "squad players " put out winning performances as well, no passengers at all in their squads.
Also they have 2 teenagers destined for greatness that haven't yet played a game.
For years everyone knew there were some undiscovered cricket freaks in Indian population and it was surmised that the caste system would render these people unable to get to the top.
I wonder if the IPL has contributed to illuminating this pool of talent.Like you said, get used to this dominance!
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Talking of NZ cricketers getting beaten...did anyone watch the rugby v cricket T20 at Hagley oval? Rugby won easily (and took some great catches.)
Cricket team included Fleming, Astle, Mills, Harris, Marshall, Franklin, Liz Perry and others.
Rugby team included McCaw, Read, Dagg, J Barrett, B Barrett, B Mac (who was actually quite shit and dropped a sitter) Kendra Cocksedge and others.That group of guys, Hart, Wells etc did the commentary. Maybe they are better at other games, but they were not in the slightest bit funny. Or interesting. Sumo on the sidelines was good though.
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@Mokey said in Black Caps v India:
Talking of NZ cricketers getting beaten...did anyone watch the rugby v cricket T20 at Hagley oval? Rugby won easily (and took some great catches.)
Cricket team included Fleming, Astle, Mills, Harris, Marshall, Franklin, Liz Perry and others.
Rugby team included McCaw, Read, Dagg, J Barrett, B Barrett, B Mac (who was actually quite shit and dropped a sitter) Kendra Cocksedge and others.That group of guys, Hart, Wells etc did the commentary. Maybe they are better at other games, but they were not in the slightest bit funny. Or interesting. Sumo on the sidelines was good though.
Even Don Bradman got ducks sometimes....
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
I've bagged out the Indians in the past. Like, a lot. Their team was massively over-rated by their dominance at home, but then they sucked on the road.
Those days are well gone. That attack they have assembled is fucking classy. This summer, in Aus and in NZ, they have won games by regularly taking wickets throughout innings. They are able to build pressure with consistent plans; they have seamers with genuine pace; and of course the ubiquitous classy Indian spinners.
They are then backed up by a strong, if not dominant, batting lineup (led by a genuine star in Kohli) who are benefiting from the attack not putting them under too much pressure. Fuckers have learned to field as well.
It's been a nice little romp through Australasia for them this summer, and a great warm up for later in the year.
Watching yesterday it was amazing to watch two of our best ever batsmen get frustrated as the Indian's just gave them nothing.
Amazing to see an Indian team come here, take 3 times as many wickets as us, and then run down our meagre totals without anyone racking up a big score.
They've just beaten us in a home series in what is an absolute golden era for NZ cricket.
That smarts.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Mokey said in Black Caps v India:
Talking of NZ cricketers getting beaten...did anyone watch the rugby v cricket T20 at Hagley oval? Rugby won easily (and took some great catches.)
Cricket team included Fleming, Astle, Mills, Harris, Marshall, Franklin, Liz Perry and others.
Rugby team included McCaw, Read, Dagg, J Barrett, B Barrett, B Mac (who was actually quite shit and dropped a sitter) Kendra Cocksedge and others.That group of guys, Hart, Wells etc did the commentary. Maybe they are better at other games, but they were not in the slightest bit funny. Or interesting. Sumo on the sidelines was good though.
Even Don Bradman got ducks sometimes....
goddam it, as soon as i saw that i knew you would come steaming in to defend one of the least funny people in NZ. You are such a fanboy
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
I've bagged out the Indians in the past. Like, a lot. Their team was massively over-rated by their dominance at home, but then they sucked on the road.
Those days are well gone. That attack they have assembled is fucking classy. This summer, in Aus and in NZ, they have won games by regularly taking wickets throughout innings. They are able to build pressure with consistent plans; they have seamers with genuine pace; and of course the ubiquitous classy Indian spinners.
They are then backed up by a strong, if not dominant, batting lineup (led by a genuine star in Kohli) who are benefiting from the attack not putting them under too much pressure. Fuckers have learned to field as well.
It's been a nice little romp through Australasia for them this summer, and a great warm up for later in the year.
Watching yesterday it was amazing to watch two of our best ever batsmen get frustrated as the Indian's just gave them nothing.
Amazing to see an Indian team come here, take 3 times as many wickets as us, and then run down our meagre totals without anyone racking up a big score.
They've just
beatenfucking smoked us in a home series in what is an absolute golden era for NZ cricket.That smarts.
Fixed
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Mokey said in Black Caps v India:
Talking of NZ cricketers getting beaten...did anyone watch the rugby v cricket T20 at Hagley oval? Rugby won easily (and took some great catches.)
Cricket team included Fleming, Astle, Mills, Harris, Marshall, Franklin, Liz Perry and others.
Rugby team included McCaw, Read, Dagg, J Barrett, B Barrett, B Mac (who was actually quite shit and dropped a sitter) Kendra Cocksedge and others.That group of guys, Hart, Wells etc did the commentary. Maybe they are better at other games, but they were not in the slightest bit funny. Or interesting. Sumo on the sidelines was good though.
Even Don Bradman got ducks sometimes....
goddam it, as soon as i saw that i knew you would come steaming in to defend one of the least funny people in NZ. You are such a fanboy
I've learnt to ignore your opinions on many things. That is one of them.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
I've bagged out the Indians in the past. Like, a lot. Their team was massively over-rated by their dominance at home, but then they sucked on the road.
Those days are well gone. That attack they have assembled is fucking classy. This summer, in Aus and in NZ, they have won games by regularly taking wickets throughout innings. They are able to build pressure with consistent plans; they have seamers with genuine pace; and of course the ubiquitous classy Indian spinners.
They are then backed up by a strong, if not dominant, batting lineup (led by a genuine star in Kohli) who are benefiting from the attack not putting them under too much pressure. Fuckers have learned to field as well.
It's been a nice little romp through Australasia for them this summer, and a great warm up for later in the year.
Watching yesterday it was amazing to watch two of our best ever batsmen get frustrated as the Indian's just gave them nothing.
Amazing to see an Indian team come here, take 3 times as many wickets as us, and then run down our meagre totals without anyone racking up a big score.
They've just
beatenfucking smoked us in a home series in what is an absolute golden era for NZ cricket.That smarts.
Fixed
I was trying to be positive.
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@mariner4life Our decline in fielding is something that particularly smarts for me. That used to be out thing. Average batting, maybe a star in bowling but not backed up by much, but by crikey we could field, and that ability to take sharp catches and runouts and save singles, cut off boundaries, kept us way more competitive than we should have been. I think we have been overtaken by many countries now in that area.
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@Mokey said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life Our decline in fielding is something that particularly smarts for me. That used to be out thing. Average batting, maybe a star in bowling but not backed up by much, but by crikey we could field, and that ability to take sharp catches and runouts and save singles, cut off boundaries, kept us way more competitive than we should have been. I think we have been overtaken by many countries now in that area.
that doesn't surprise me, because it's something you can improve regardless of talent level. An ordinary team can still be exceptional in the field.
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@Mokey said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life Our decline in fielding is something that particularly smarts for me. That used to be out thing. Average batting, maybe a star in bowling but not backed up by much, but by crikey we could field, and that ability to take sharp catches and runouts and save singles, cut off boundaries, kept us way more competitive than we should have been. I think we have been overtaken by many countries now in that area.
Fielders on the whole have improved in world cricket overall except us and the Windies, the latter still seem to be a bit cool to actually dive and make an effort.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
I've bagged out the Indians in the past. Like, a lot. Their team was massively over-rated by their dominance at home, but then they sucked on the road.
Those days are well gone. That attack they have assembled is fucking classy. This summer, in Aus and in NZ, they have won games by regularly taking wickets throughout innings. They are able to build pressure with consistent plans; they have seamers with genuine pace; and of course the ubiquitous classy Indian spinners.
They are then backed up by a strong, if not dominant, batting lineup (led by a genuine star in Kohli) who are benefiting from the attack not putting them under too much pressure. Fuckers have learned to field as well.
It's been a nice little romp through Australasia for them this summer, and a great warm up for later in the year.
Watching yesterday it was amazing to watch two of our best ever batsmen get frustrated as the Indian's just gave them nothing.
Amazing to see an Indian team come here, take 3 times as many wickets as us, and then run down our meagre totals without anyone racking up a big score.
Yes - they're better than I expected.
Though, I think we've been worse than we should be - especially the batsmen (and I agree about the fielding).
I'm inclined to think we've come into this series in cruise mode after beating up on Sri Lanka, while the Indians have been hardened with a couple of tough months in Australia.
That we've done slightly better in each game points to this - and there's significant improvement available in the likes of Nicholls, Guptill and even Little Kane - and if we put the walking wicket on the sidelines and bring in Neesham.
Less improvement available among the bowlers. Neesham offers a bit more pace than Bracewell and Southee a bit more experience - but, as I said earlier - Boult is our only really good bowler. Watching yesterday reminded me of the days of Sir Paddles - when he was having a spell you basically waited until he came back before you really expected to make many inroads.
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