Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad
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@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
I am kind of liking this team. It it tempting to drop Munro/Nicholls and have Latham open or bat at 5 while picking two all rounders. You could do that. The only thing is if Neesham doesn't bowl well then de Grandhomme probably won't either. In a lot of ways it makes sense to pick just one of them.
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@SynicBast said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I played the argument, such as it was.
In completely different thread? Ok
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
I think that is the selectors hope - if he can average above ~33 with a plus 100 strike rate that is valuable as it means Guppy/Kane/Rosco can play themselves in without worrying about generating a run rate early. I don't mind it, he's got a great eye and if he comes off we set ourselves up for a massive score.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
This reminds me of some shit meme that was going round back in 2015 about the dangers of running with Ross Taylor and Scissors.....
The fact I'm really pissed when typing this and listening to Toto ( they just landed in NZ ) is irrelevant.
It's still dangerous.
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Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
I'm not sure if I follow your argument against Munro. For me his selection is a two step idea.
- Do you fundamentally agree that best strategy, given our resources, having a dasher/slogger opening with Guppy?
- If yes, is Munro the best option for that role?
For the role Munro is expected to play judging him on 50s or 100s is the wrong yardstick. I would love an opener who we could judge by that yardstick btw - but then he would be playing a different role. We are expecting Munro to be a Kalu not a Jayasuria, a Greatbatch not a Wright.
The career average of 26 off 25 balls you pointed out is obviously not good enough for the role IMO. But that is his career and I would happily take an average of ~35 off 25 if he can produce that.
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
I agree that his stats aren't great but unless there's someone else in the wings, it's too late to replace him before the World Cup.
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@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
I agree that his stats aren't great but unless there's someone else in the wings, it's too late to replace him before the World Cup.
There is. Latham. It's a bit of give and take as his SR isn't fantastic but his stat's line is significantly better than Munro's. Three of his four centuries have been opening, and he's proven he can score consistently against quality opposition when you look at his run of scores VS SA in SA in 2015 and VS India in India in 2016 and 2017 (the latter series albeit down the order).
I think if Munro struggles in this next series VS India then he'll be under serious pressure.
Additionally I struggle to see how we can fit Latham and Nicholls into the middle order together.
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Good shout Shark, reckon your 15 is bang on.
I struggle to have confidence is the firepower of a Nicholls/Latham/CDG/Santner middle order but prefer the look of Latham/Neesham/CDG/Santner, with Munro opening.
Nicholls and Latham essentially play the same role, Nicholls has only just delivered one ton whereas Latham has done it consistently at 5 in ODI’s, so Latham starts and Nicholls is your spare batsman.
I am obviously biased, but genuinely think if Jimmy keeps getting wickets that he is now ahead of CDG in all three formats (and they’ll probably play both in ODI & T20)The irony is their competition for team all rounder spots goes way back to Auckland cricket 8 or so years ago when they and Colin Munro were all in the mix for the Aces, until Jimmy hightailed it to Otago. 18 months ago it was CDG again when Jimmys form fell away. Now here we are... May the best man, or better still all three men, WIN
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
You don't understand my argument against him but agree that his stat's aren't good enough?? Umm.....
Munro's career stats aren't good enough, but he has improved and given his role I think his T20I returns do matter. I do not see anyone qualified to replace him if we are looking someone who can score over a run a ball in the first 15. If Neesham wants to have a crack opening I'm all for it.
Latham is the reasonable and obvious option but as Sprinko points out it completely changes the complexion of the batting order and we are left without enough firepower unless other changes are made down the order IMO.
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@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonI think a lot of people would go with this side or similar, the issue is what are your options if Ferguson or Santner can't find their line or de Grandhomme becomes easy pickings?
Kane is a good 6th option, but seems reluctant to bowl himself. Then what? Munro? Guppy? I think you need more insurance (e.g. Munro out Neesham in, Latham to open).
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Do we risk Neesham when history tells us he is unlikely to get through the world cup uninjured? I am half expecting him not to make it through this home season, let alone the cup.
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@rotated said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonI think a lot of people would go with this side or similar, the issue is what are your options if Ferguson or Santner can't find their line or de Grandhomme becomes easy pickings?
Kane is a good 6th option, but seems reluctant to bowl himself. Then what? Munro? Guppy? I think you need more insurance (e.g. Munro out Neesham in, Latham to open).
Keep seeing this re: Santner - what is it that makes you think he won't find his line? With a career RPO under 5 he's probably our least likely bowler to get hit around. I'd be far more concerned with Southee from our frontline attack whose recent stats don't make for pretty reading.
It's a fair point re: the other 10 overs though, it's extremely unlikely we will get more than 5 out of CdG so we would be relying on Kane and Munro to get through some overs as well which is a risk.
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Re: Munro. I'm not really a fan, I think he gets found out by quality opposition as he's really just a hitter with a good eye and shit technique. But we're really struggling to find a decent opener to partner Guppy.
Latham is the only other contender who has averaged more than 30 in that position in the past few years. It's not a bad idea, but would completely change our approach as both he and Guppy tend to start slow and build into their innings. So we'd be putting all our eggs in the final 10 overs with the hope that we'd score enough then to get a competitive total, which can heap a lot of pressure on the middle/lower order. I'm not convinced we have the finishers to make that work consistently.
Given Munro's T20 form I think he's worth a gamble at the top, with Latham floating as an insurance policy.
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@rotated said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
You don't understand my argument against him but agree that his stat's aren't good enough?? Umm.....
Munro's career stats aren't good enough, but he has improved and given his role I think his T20I returns do matter. I do not see anyone qualified to replace him if we are looking someone who can score over a run a ball in the first 15. If Neesham wants to have a crack opening I'm all for it.
Latham is the reasonable and obvious option but as Sprinko points out it completely changes the complexion of the batting order and we are left without enough firepower unless other changes are made down the order IMO.
As others have said the only significant concern is Latham's tendency to start slow. Desirable in test matches, ODIs and 20/20 not so much
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Re: Munro. I'm not really a fan, I think he gets found out by quality opposition as he's really just a hitter with a good eye and shit technique. But we're really struggling to find a decent opener to partner Guppy.
Latham is the only other contender who has averaged more than 30 in that position in the past few years. It's not a bad idea, but would completely change our approach as both he and Guppy tend to start slow and build into their innings. So we'd be putting all our eggs in the final 10 overs with the hope that we'd score enough then to get a competitive total, which can heap a lot of pressure on the middle/lower order. I'm not convinced we have the finishers to make that work consistently.
Given Munro's T20 form I think he's worth a gamble at the top, with Latham floating as an insurance policy.
Pretty well put.
I seriously believe though that a poor series against India will put Munro's position under immense threat. So if not Latham, due to that tendency to start slow and build into an innings (valid when I dig into his stats), then who can we use in lieu of Munro? How about this: Corey Anderson.
Thoughts?
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Re: Munro. I'm not really a fan, I think he gets found out by quality opposition as he's really just a hitter with a good eye and shit technique. But we're really struggling to find a decent opener to partner Guppy.
Latham is the only other contender who has averaged more than 30 in that position in the past few years. It's not a bad idea, but would completely change our approach as both he and Guppy tend to start slow and build into their innings. So we'd be putting all our eggs in the final 10 overs with the hope that we'd score enough then to get a competitive total, which can heap a lot of pressure on the middle/lower order. I'm not convinced we have the finishers to make that work consistently.
Given Munro's T20 form I think he's worth a gamble at the top, with Latham floating as an insurance policy.
Pretty well put.
I seriously believe though that a poor series against India will put Munro's position under immense threat. So if not Latham, due to that tendency to start slow and build into an innings (valid when I dig into his stats), then who can we use in lieu of Munro? How about this: Corey Anderson.
Thoughts?
When is he ever fit? Another strong guy with fast hands, not sure of his technique though
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50
49 is a danger score for him - he's got three of those! So three more strategically placed runs and he'd have 10 half centuries.
He's also batted a lot at 6 & 7, which as you well know is a different role and not conducive to getting lots of 50s/100s - especially in a team where the top order is doing its job.
As above, I also take his T20 results into account - and in that format, he's got a pretty comparable record to Guppy.
But generally, I pretty much agree with @No-Quarter's summary. He's worth a gamble to give us a fast start.
Other thing is - we've got nine round robin matches at the CWC, so we'll need to juggle things and if people are proving to be busts, we'll have the option to drop them.
Hopefully, we make the play-offs and hopefully by that time the top combination in terms of talent and form will be pretty obvious.
